top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Let me get this straight...the Trinitarians are the bad guys
Herk claims he knows every trinitarians deepest subconcious thoughts and he says somone is on drugs.
Dakota has become so stuck on himself he calls me a child and he is "going to go talk to the adults now".
Joseph says the trinity isn't in the Bible but he believes in several gods.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Herk, thats all fine and dandy, but your interpretation doesn't stand up against the weight of Scripture. The Messiah is God. It's not only in the NT but all over the OT.
Isaiah 6-7 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."
In this passage the Messiah is prophecied. He is called the Everlasting Father and the Mighty God. So, herk, are you saying that there are two mighty Gods and two Everlasting Father. The Jews knew from passages like this who the Messiah was going to be - God Himself.
Do I have to quote Isaiah 44:6-7 again? "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee."
Zechariah 2:10-11 "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Here is another passage which basically says the same thing as in Isaiha. The Lord (in this passage tranlsated as Jehovah) sends the Lord (Jehovah) to dwell with His people. Jehovah even says "I WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF THEE." Sorry Herk, your interpretations have fallen.
Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting"
This passage says the Messiah has an everlasting past. No creator!
Can the Deity of Christ be any more obvious than this?
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Gumby, if you read some his posts it's obvious he's not saved. Dakota doesn't trust the Bible, He hates fundamentalism because it teaches the Bible's message. That all who reject Jesus Christ is condemned, but those who repent, believe, and place their trust on Jesus Christ is saved.
Dakota has no religion, he preferrs to view God as he wishes. He has become a law unto himself. (Romans 2:14)
My one question is this for Dekota: how can you trust Jesus's message if it was not perfectly preserved?
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Dakota, now that I know exactly how you believe, I realize it was pointless to debate you in the first place. You give little regard to Scripture and you condemn someone who places their faith on it and believes what it says. You condemn someone who hold's to Jesus's words "my words shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35)
If God can speak the universe into existence, He can preserve His word. I am a Fundamentalist, all that means is I hold the Word of God as the supreme authority.
You, right now, are in an apostate, unless you repent and trust in Jesus Christ you will be condemned. Thats Bible teaching.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
"What you say subconsciously reveals that even your own mind cannot accept the silliness of the Trinity."
Herk, stop playing word games, you know what meadow meant.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Dakota, for one, I did not call anyone here a "dorkus scholar". I called a scholar whom someone quoted a dork.
Secondly, Christians are the ones with the truth.
Acts 11:26 "And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch."
The Bible records the early church as being Christians. So are you calling the church of God false teachers?
Thirdly, I'd like to know what sort of bloody history the Christians have. A true Christian's agenda is to spread the truth of God and be compasionate. Jesus says "Ye are the light of the world." My best bet is that you are talking about the Roman Catholic Church. Surely someone as "scholarly" as yourself would know the difference between a true Christian and a Catholic.
As far as salvation issues, it seems that your agrument is more with the Word of God than with me. I quoted some verses pertaining to salvation and you have a problem with it.
In response to your statement "Try reading scriptures from the mindset of the Jews who mostly wrote it thousands of years ago, instead of forcing modern views on it and changing their original intent to fit todays beliefs."
That's the best you have? Well, I don't blame you. The passage I quoted was correctly translated and in context. What else could you say?
The fact is, there is only ONE way to take this verse in Isaiah. Jehovah sent Jehovah. It says it plain and clear. There really is no arguing with a verse like this.
I would like to know, how was it meant to be taken and how am I "forcing" modern views on it; when there is only one way to take it?
Also, I'd like to know what your faith or religion is. You seem to disagree with everyone.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
"How utterly Christian of you. Where are you any different than the Watchtower? They teach all will die and be slaughtered at Armegeddon and you insinuate all will suffer eternal damnation and torture for not accepting your view.
Sorry, you are no different than the Watchtower and I rejected them too. I will follow life as I see it and read the Bible as I see it, not how misguided fundamentalists and hellfire and brimstone preachers tell me I should."
Dakota, in that part of the post, all I did was quote some verses speaking of salvation and the Holy Spirit. If thats so offensive, then you truley are lost.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
herk, if I misunderstood anything you wrote I apologize, but you did say it's a faulty translation.
JWs have been known to misquote, take out of context, and even all out lie when it comes to translation issues. I'm not saying your one of them, but I know your sources are corrupted.
Lets say, for the sake of argument, that verse is a mistranslation; there are still scores of other verses which you have to take into account. If your going to say every single one of them is mistranslation, then that would mean the tranlators who wrote the KJV (a) had no idea what they were doing, (b) were agents of Satan. Somehow I doubt that any of these are true.
You realize the NWT translation is extremely corrupted. Every single other translation (i.e. NKJV, NIV, ASV) basically says the same thing as the KJV. With these versions the Deity of Christ is evident also.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Joseph, there's one problem with your belief. There Bible clearly says there is ONE God; ONE creator; and ONE who is worthy of worship.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Colossians 1:16-17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Exodus 43:11-12 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
This is one of the clearest teachings in the Bible, and yet you still got it wrong.
top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
Dakota, it is becoming more and more apparent to me that you have no grasp of the Scripture at all. I give you a verse that says Jehovah sends Jehovah to dwell among his people, you all you do is say it's "an excellent example of polytheism." That kind of left me with a: "that's nice, but where's your response to the verse?"
Now I don't know about you, but if Jehovah sent Jesus the Messiah to dwell among His people, and in this prophecy about the Messiah, Jehovah sends Jehovah to dwell among his people, I think it's saying that the Messiah is Jehovah! It's pretty much common sense. But go on! Keep twisting and avoiding the Scripture. I find that you are very sly in avoiding to actually address that passage in Isaiah.
You also seem to have many misconceptions about Trinitarians. You seem to think we believe in three Gods. Trinitarians believe in ONE sovereign God, however, He exists as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's Biblical teaching, you can find it many places all throughout the Bible.
It's not a "secret" doctrine, because its so easily found. But it is a mystery (1Timothy 3:16).
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God...they are spiritually discerned."
The most important thing for someone to do is become saved.
John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
If you believe on the name of the Son of God, and accept Him as your Lord and savior, then you will become born again and are one of God's children.
John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"
God will preserve you. 2 Timothy 4:18: "And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
After you have become saved...
Acts 1:8a "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:"
Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
...The Spririt leads someone in Scripture after they are saved, for the discernment is lifted. Most posting messages in here are not saved, and therefore are spiritually discerned.
