The Trinity

by meadow77 740 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  meadow77

  Top reasons the WTS is lying about the trinity.

  1. Their translation of John 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs. The insertion of the phrase a god, instead of God is just a clear misinterpretation. The WTS claims that there is no article before logos therefore making it a god. However they are not even consistent in their own interpretations. There are several other passages with the same article missing, in which they translate logos as God, not a god. See John 1:6 and 1:18. Then there is the blatant strangeness of this interpretation. They ridicule Trinitarians for belief in a three headed diety. They can quote verses about Jehovah being the only God from sun up until sun down. Yet they are the only ones conceding that the bible makes reference to more than one God. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word was A GOD. They cant get around the word God here, but they believe inserting the word a, somehow will change the meaning. Which it does, to show how clearly it is the WTS are the only folks believing in more than one God.
  2. The WTS says the holy spirit is simply an inactive force. This is interesting since the holy spirit is described with person like traits. We see that the holy spirit teaches, comforts, is grieved, and can be lied to. Whens the last time you lied to your socks? Furthermore the bible makes the point that by lying to the holy spirit, you are directly lying to God (Acts 5:3-4)
  3. I am the Alpha and the Omega. Look at Rev 1:8. Note that their can only be one Alpha and Omega. Then turn to -13. The Alpha and Omega here says he is coming quickly, still the JW will insists that this is Jehovah. But then if we continue on to verse 16, we see that Jesus is speaking. This is when it becomes clear that both Jesus and God are referred to as The alpha and Omega.
  4. Jesus accepted worship. There are several examples of people worshiping Jesus. There are no examples in the bible of Jesus refusing worship. Even the JWs will tell you that worshipping anyone other than God is a big no-no. So why would the greatest man who ever lived and was sinless, allow himself to be worshipped?
  5. SEE HEBREWS FOR REFUTATION TO JESUS AS AN ANGEL
  6. The Jews crucified him for blasphemy. The Jews had to have a valid reason for killing Christ. The only law he had broken was blasphemy, and they said as much. Jesus declared before Abraham, I AM. I AM was clearly God, as this is How God had revealed himself to Moses. The Jews understood Jesus to be making himself equal with God by saying I Am.

  There are plenty of other arguments for why the WTS are seriously mistaken about the diety of Christ, but as this thread is getting longer by the minute, Ill stop here.
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  IronGland

  Perhaps. It's amusing when people argue scriptural points like the Trinity and so forth. They always sound like a bunch of sci-fi fanboys arguing things such as: who would win in a fight,Cap.Picard or Cap. Kirk? Earth to bible literalist, it's a collection of stories. It's not real. Move on.
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  meadow77

  I'm sorry you feel that way, iron. You might change you're mind one day. Just trying to give some info to those who do believe, and have been decieved.

  Edited by - meadow77 on 25 November 2002 21:0:36
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  JH

  My sister is a baptist, and she is trying so hard to make me understand that the trinity exists. They see Jesus as all mighty God. Thats not what we learned as witnesses. Is our bible really screwed up, or is it that we take the verses that pleases us to prove a point. When both sides hold on to what they believe, then it always finishes in a stalemate. Why can't the bible be easy to understrand. Why is it that so many people searching for the truth can't find it?
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  IronGland

  I've read the bible. It's seems to be a pretty straightforward collection of narratives. Believers seem to think there is some kind of secret message in there. If such things as the Trinity mattered,and God was the author, i'm sure he would make it known. If someone had never been exposed to Christianity and just stumbled across the Bible in a library one day, there is no way they would come up with the Trinity or 99% of Christian Theology. Im willing to cut mainstream christian theology some slack. After all, most of it was formulated in the early middle ages. They were into that sorta thing. JW theology can only be blamed on insanity,however.

  Edited by - irongland on 25 November 2002 21:17:28
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  meadow77

  let me see if I can make this clearer.

  The bible says there are three who bear witness in heaven. The Father, the son, and the Holy spirit, and that they are one. What is confusing about that? The JW's are the only one's making a person believe that it's a concept too confusing. The bible is very clear, no stalemate here.
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  herk

  Meadow77,

  We make more converts with honey than with vinegar. Persons who are struggling with questions about God, Christ and the Holy Spirit are quickly turned off by statements like the following:

  • Their translation ... is ... a complete farce.
  • The insertion ... is just a clear misinterpretation.
  • Then there is the blatant strangeness of this interpretation.
  • They can quote verses about Jehovah being the only God from sun up until sun down.
  • Whens the last time you lied to your socks?

  Whether we're trinitarian or unitarian in our beliefs, it's always best to show respect for the other person and his or her point of view, at least at the outset of any discussion. I'm not a trinitarian. I've heard every one of your arguments before and found them extremely weak upon cross-examination. However, they would invite discussion if you hadn't hammered away from the beginning that you are right and persons who disagree are liars.

  Herk
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  IronGland

  It would be an interesting experiment to have someone with no exposure to Christianity,read the bible and give their thoughts. If 1) the bible is a message from god and 2) christianity is the spokesman for that message our non-christian reader should develop something approximating christian theology on his own. No? Oh, I see, someone more knowledgeable has to interpret it for you. Yep, makes sense to me.
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  meadow77

  Herk, I am sorry you don't like my wording, I'm not trying to be offensive.

  It seems the only one being attacked here is me. If you don't like what I have to say, please attack my argument, not me. You say my points don't stand up under closer observation, but never gave any examples. I would not mind engaging in an exchange of ideas, but I won't apologize for being sure of my beliefs.
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  barry

  Argueing christian beleif from the bible only is the wrong way to go. The bible wasnt all put together as we know it until 369ad and the trinity doctrine in the nicean creed had been established about 40 years before that. The nicean creed came from the creed of ceasarea which is realy a baptisimal statement and right throughout christendom there were hundreds of these baptisimal statements all haveing the same pattern. I recall reading about a very early baptisimal statement from the 2nd century that says.' I beleive in God the father creater of the universe, and in jesus christ our lord, and in the holy spirit. In the holy catholic church and the forgiveness of sins' A statement which looks very much like the nicean creed.
  In the first centuries of the church tradition was the Authority of the church the teaching handed down by the Apostals that were given to them by the Lord. Barry