Posts by SwedishChef

38

Christ and OT prophecy

by SwedishChef in

prophecy: ps 72:10. fulfilled: matt 2:1,11. .

prophecy: ps 2:6. fulfilled: matt 27:37. .

prophecy: ps 78:2. fulfilled matt 13:34. .

Rem,

You act as if these objections to the Bible are something new, but they have existed for centuries. Your not pointing out anything that hasn't already been heard, researched, and refuted. Church fathers, bible scholars, pastors, researchers, etc, that have read the Bible 30+ times through, generation after generation, have not found anything wrong with this Book. I am not intending on engaging myself in another series of debates with you. I will, however, address this one argument you have against it.

You said:

"Research the word translated Virgin in Isaiah. It means young woman and does not have the connotation of a Virgin. The writer of Matt made this error because he was working off of a poor Septuagint translation."

"Behold, the Lord himself shall give you a sign," as the Bible says. What is this sign? Would he be "born of a virgin", or "born of a young woman?" Now which one sounds like a miraculous event to you? Which one sounds like a sign? There is nothing special about being born of a young maiden.

In Hebrew the word "virgin" is denoted by two words:
1. bethulah: the proper meaning denotes a virgin maiden (Gen 24:16; Lev 21:13; Deut. 22:14, 23,28; Judg 11:37; I Kin 1:2)
2. almah (veiled): A young woman of marriageable age. This word is used in Isaiah 7:14. The Holy Spirit through Isaiah did not use bethulah, because both the ideas of virginity and marriageable age had to be combined in one word to meet the immediate historical situation and the prophetic aspect centering in a virgin-born Messiah.
"Virgin" is denoted in Greek by the word parthenos: a virgin, marriageable maiden, or young married woman, pure virgin. When the translators of the Septuagint translated Isaiah 7:14 into Greek they used the Greek word parthenos. To them Isaiah 7:14 denoted that the Messiah would be born of a virgin.

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give to you(pl) a sign:
behold the ALMA will conceive and bear a son
and she will call his name Immanuel."

"You" in verse 14 is plural. By contrast King Achaz is singular you in verses 11 and 16-17. The sign to Achaz was that before a child should know how to choose good from bad, the siege would end (16-17). That child was not the newborn child of verse 14 but the child is Isaiah's son Sh'ar-Yashuv from Isaiah 7:3. The prophecy of Is. 7:14 is not addressed only to Achaz as is the rest of the prophecy.

Matthew Henry comments on these verses as such:

"...the Lord himself shall give a sign. How great soever your distress and danger, of you the Messiah is to be born, and you cannot be destroyed while that blessing is in you. It shall be brought to pass in a glorious manner; and the strongest consolations in time of trouble are derived from Christ, our relation to him, our interest in him, our expectations of him and from him. He would grow up like other children, by the use of the diet of those countries; but he would, unlike other children, uniformly refuse the evil and choose the good. And although his birth would be by the power of the Holy Ghost, yet he should not be fed with angels' food. Then follows a sign of the speedy destruction of the princes, now a terror to Judah. "Before this child," so it may be read; "this child which I have now in my arms," (Shear-jashub, the prophet's own son, ver. 3,) shall be three or four years older, these enemies' forces shall be forsaken of both their kings. The prophecy is so solemn, the sign is so marked, as given by God himself after Ahaz rejected the offer, that it must have raised hopes far beyond what the present occasion suggested. And, if the prospect of the coming of the Divine Saviour was a never-failing support to the hopes of ancient believers, what cause have we to be thankful that the Word was made flesh! May we trust in and love Him, and copy his example."

38

Christ and OT prophecy

by SwedishChef in

prophecy: ps 72:10. fulfilled: matt 2:1,11. .

prophecy: ps 2:6. fulfilled: matt 27:37. .

prophecy: ps 78:2. fulfilled matt 13:34. .

SwedishChef

Here is a list of 61 Prophecies in the Old Testament which Jesus fulfilled. There are in many cases other Scriptural references, but I don't have the will power to type them all up.

Prophecies concerning His birth:
1. Born of seed of woman:
prophecy: Gen 3:15
fulfilled: Gal 4:4

2. Born of Virgin
prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
fulfilled: Matt 1:23

3. Son of God
prophecy: Ps 2:7
fulfillment: Matt 3:17

4. Seed of Abraham
prophecy: Gen 22:18
fulfilled: Matt 1:1

5. Son of Isaac
prophecy: Gen 21:12
fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

6. Son of Jacob
prophecy: Num 24:17
fulfilled: Lk 3:23,34

7. Tribe of Judah
prophecy: Gen 49:10
fufilled Lk 3:23,33

8. Family Line of Jesse
prophecy: 11:1
fufilled Lk 3:23,32

9. House of David
prophecy: Jer 23:5
fulfilled Lk 3:23,31

10. Born at Bethlehem
prophecy: Micah 5:2
fulfilled Matt 2:1

11. Presented with Gifts
prophecy: Ps 72:10
fulfilled: Matt 2:1,11

12. Herod Kills Children
prophecy Jer 31:15
fulfilled: Matt 2:16

Prophecies Concerning His Nature:
13. His pre-existence
prophecy: Miah 5:2
fulfilled: Col 1:17

14. He shall be called Lord
prophecy: Ps 110:1
fulfilled: Lk 2:11

15. Shall be Immanuel (God with us)
prophecy: Isaiah 7:14
fulfilled: Matt 1:23

16. Shall be a prophet
prophecy: Deut 18:18
fulfilled: Matt 21:11

17. Priest
prophecy: Ps. 110:4
fulfilled: Heb 3:1

18. Judge
prophecy: Is 33:22
fulfilled: John 5:30

19. King
prophecy: Ps 2:6
fulfilled: Matt 27:37

20. Special Anointing of Holy Spirit
prophecy: Is 11:2
fulfilled: Matt 3:16,17

21. His zeal for God
prophecy: Ps 69:9
John 2:15,16

Prophecies concerning His ministry
22. Preceded by Messenger
prophecy: Is 40:3
fulfilled: Matt 33:1,2

23. Ministry to begin in Galilee
prophecy: Is 9:1
fulfilled: Matt 4:12,13,17

24. Ministry of Miracles
prophecy: Is 35:5,6
fulfilled Matt 9:35

25. Teacher of parables
prophecy: Ps 78:2
fulfilled Matt 13:34

26. He was to enter the temple
prophecy Mal 3:1
fulfilled Matt 13:34

27 He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey
prophecy Zech 9:9
fulfilled Lk 19:35-37

28 "Stone of Stumbling" to the Jews
prophecy: Ps 118:22
fulfilled 1 Peter 2:7

29 "Light" to the Gentiles
prophecy Is 60:3
fulfilled Acts 13:47,48

Prophecies Concerning Events after His burial:
30. Resurrection
prophecy Ps 16:10
fulfilled Acts 2:31

31. Ascension
prophecy Ps 68:18
fulfilled Acts 1L9

32. Seated at the right hand of God
prophecy Ps 110:1
fulfilled Heb 1:3

Prophecies Fulfilled in one day:
33 Betrayed by a Friend
prophecy Ps 55:12-14
fulfilled Matt 10:4

34. Sold for 30 pieces of silver
prophecy Zech 11:12
fulfilled Matt 26:15

35. Money to be thrown in God's house
prophecy Zech 11:13
fulfilled Matt 27:5

36. Price given for potter's field
prophecy Zech 11:13
fulfilled Matt 27:7

37 Forsaken by His diciples
prophecy Zech 13:7
fulfilled Mk 14:50

38. Accused by False Witnesses
prophecy Ps. 35:11
fulfilled Matt 26:59,60

39. Silent before accusers
prophecy Is 53:7
fulfilled Matt 27:26

40 Wounded and Bruised
prophecy Is 53:5
fulfilled Matt 27:26

41 Smitten and Spit Upon
prophecy: Is 50:6
fulfilled Matt 26:67

42 Mocked
prophecy Ps 22:7,8
fulfilled Matt 27:29

43 Fell under the cross
prophecy Ps 109:24,25
fulfilled John 19:17; Lk 23:26

44 Hands and feet Pierced
prophecy Ps 22:16
fulfilled Lk 23:33

45 Died with thieves
prophecy Is 53L12
fulfilled Matt 27:38

46 Made intercession for his persecutors
prophecy Is 53:12
fulfilled Lk 23:34

47 Rejected by His own people
prophecy: Is 53:3
fulfilled John 7:5,48

48 Hated without a cause
prophecy Ps 69:4
fulfilled John 15:25

49 Friends stood afar off
prophecy Ps 38:11
fulfilled Lk 23:49

50 People shook their heads
prophecy Ps 109:25
fulfilled Matt 27:39

51 Stared Upon
prophecy Ps 22:17
fulfilled Lk 23:25

52 Garments parted and lots cast
prophecy: PS 22:18
fulfilled John 19:23,24

53. To suffer thirst
prophecy Ps 69:21
fulfilled John 19:28

54 Gall and vinegar offered to Him
prophecy Ps 69:21
fulfilled Matt 27:34

55 His forsaken cry
prophecy Ps 22:1
fulfilled Matt 27:46

56 Committed Himself to God
prophecy Ps 31:5
fulfilled Lk 23:46

57 Bones not broken
prophecy Ps 34:20
fulfilled John 19:33

58 Heartbroken
prophecy: Ps 22:14
fulfilled John 19:34

59 He is Pierced
prophecy Zech 1:10
fulfilled John 19:34

60 Darkness over the Land
prophecy Amos 8:9
fulfilled Mattt 27:45

61 Buried in a rich Man's tomb
prophecy Is 53:9
fulfilled Matt 27:57-60

4

Was Peter a Pope?

by SwedishChef in

the entire concept of the papacy is of pagan origin.

the title pope, or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of rome by the wicked emperor phocas in the year 610.. catholic doctrine states that peter was the first pope, suggesting that matthew 16:15-19 is in reference to the papacy.

however, such a concept is ludicrous and should be regarded as such.. .

SwedishChef

Carmel,

I get what your saying, and I suppose it could be interpreted that way. However, in light of other Scripture, as pointed out above, I still believe that Jesus Christ was speaking of Himself as the Rock.

2

Christ and the Levitical Feasts

by SwedishChef in

in the work and person of christ there is a fulfillment of the levitical feasts.. .

the feast: (lev 23).

1 passover (april).

SwedishChef

In the work and person of Christ there Is a Fulfillment of the Levitical Feasts.

The Feast: (Lev 23)
1 Passover (April)
2 Unleavened Bread (April)
3 First Fruits (April)
4 Pentecost (June)
5 Trumpets (Sept.)
6 Atonement (Sept.)
7 Tabernacles (Sept.)

The Fulfillment in Christ
1 Death of Christ (I Cor 5:7)
2 Holy Walk (I Cor 5:8)
3 Resurrection (I Cor 15:23)
4 Outpouring of the Spirit (Acts 1:5; 2:4)
5 Israel's Regathering (Matt 24:31)
6 Cleansing by Christ (Rom 11:26)
7 Rest and Reunion with Christ (Zech 14:16-18)

11

Prayer to Jesus Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

did the apostles and disciples pray to jesus christ?

2nd corinthians 12:8: concerning this thing, i begged the lord three times that it might depart from me.. 2nd corinthians 12:9: he has said to me, "my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.

" most gladly therefore i will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of christ may rest on me.. 2nd corinthians 12:10: therefore i take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for christ's sake.

SwedishChef

I would not pray to anyone but God, but praise Jesus Christ's holy name, for God He is.

11

Prayer to Jesus Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

did the apostles and disciples pray to jesus christ?

2nd corinthians 12:8: concerning this thing, i begged the lord three times that it might depart from me.. 2nd corinthians 12:9: he has said to me, "my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.

" most gladly therefore i will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of christ may rest on me.. 2nd corinthians 12:10: therefore i take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for christ's sake.

SwedishChef

Comparing some Old Testament passages with some New. Here we have just a few of many verses in reference to Jehovah in the OT, and in the NT the same attributes are given to Jesus Christ.

Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him (Jesus), I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

John 1:3 All things were made by him [Jesus]; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

Mark 1:1-3 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

John 8:57,58 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Philippians 2:10,11 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus] shall be saved."

Zechariah 12:10 "And I [Jehovah] will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Revelation 1:7,8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Revelation 17:14 "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Zechariah 11:11-13 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

Matthew 26:15 "And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver."

4

Was Peter a Pope?

by SwedishChef in

the entire concept of the papacy is of pagan origin.

the title pope, or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of rome by the wicked emperor phocas in the year 610.. catholic doctrine states that peter was the first pope, suggesting that matthew 16:15-19 is in reference to the papacy.

however, such a concept is ludicrous and should be regarded as such.. .

SwedishChef

The entire concept of the papacy is of pagan origin. The title pope, or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas in the year 610.
Catholic doctrine states that Peter was the first Pope, suggesting that Matthew 16:15-19 is in reference to the papacy. However, such a concept is ludicrous and should be regarded as such.

Matthew 16:17-19 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Jesus is not proclaiming Peter to be the Rock, for this is none other than Himself. Jesus Christ is the foundation and the Rock and the head of the Church as other Scripture verifies.

Deuteronomy 32:4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."

1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

1 Corinthians 3:11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Christ is the Rock, not Peter. Also, the Greek word for Peter is "petros" meaning "a little stone". The word for rock is "petra", meaning "The Rock". Peter was not special for being called a stone. For the Bible says that we are all stones built upon the foundation that is Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 2:5 "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

The keys that Jesus gave Peter represent the authority that He gave every believer. Notice Matthew 18:18 has the same phrase and Jesus is not talking only to Peter. As believers God gives every one of us the authority to say "If you do not believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ you will be condemned." We also have the authority to say "If you do believe on the Lord Jesus Christ you will be delivered."

As clearly taught in the Bible, Christ is the Rock. There is nothing found in the Bible which remotely resembles the papacy.

28

Jesus died on a stake?

by SwedishChef in

you've got to love the watchtower.

they must think that the general population has no bible available to it.

while scrolling through a list of their beliefs on the official site, there was one that really caught my eye because of its sheer ludicrousness.

SwedishChef

The Bible says Jesus was crusified. Youd think that would be enough.

28

Jesus died on a stake?

by SwedishChef in

you've got to love the watchtower.

they must think that the general population has no bible available to it.

while scrolling through a list of their beliefs on the official site, there was one that really caught my eye because of its sheer ludicrousness.

SwedishChef

Jourles,
Thanks for your response.

As far as I'm concerned, they will never be able to explain this one away. Maybe the WTS should use the what the Bible says - a cross. After all, the Bible referrs to the cross 28 times and gives a detailed account of the crucifixion in the four Gospels. Not to mention it was the main form of Roman capital punishment at the time. I have no idea where the WTS is coming from.

Edited by - SwedishChef on 15 January 2003 22:27:19

28

Jesus died on a stake?

by SwedishChef in

you've got to love the watchtower.

they must think that the general population has no bible available to it.

while scrolling through a list of their beliefs on the official site, there was one that really caught my eye because of its sheer ludicrousness.

SwedishChef

You've got to love the Watchtower. They must think that the general population has no Bible available to it. While scrolling through a list of their beliefs on the Official site, there was one that really caught my eye because of its sheer ludicrousness. It says "Jesus died on a stake not a cross." Any of you JWs care to explain this?

Edited by - SwedishChef on 15 January 2003 22:7:25