Gumby, if in fact your sources are credible (which I highly doubt they are), then all I have to say is Satan has his counterfeits. Christianity is indeed unlike any other religions out there. It is the one true religion. The Bible is the one true infallible Word of God.
The one thing I just cannot understand is why people like you actually go out of your way to try to discredit the Bible to cause people to defect from their faith.
I can tell that will never happen to a true Christian. God keeps us.
SwedishChef
JoinedPosts by SwedishChef
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Another thing to add to my post above:
If the apostle Thomas, without correction, called Jesus Lord and God, I think it is a safe bet that Jesus is Lord and God.John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.In response to the discussion about John 3:13.
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."The Strongs and Youngs literal translations show that the KJV was correct translating this verse.
Strongs literal: "And no one has gone up into Heaven except he out of Heaven having come down the Son of Man, who is in Heaven."
Youngs literal: "and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down -- the Son of Man who is in the heaven." -
740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
So much debate on John 1:1. Why? Because it says it so clearly. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. There really is no debating on what it says. The Word, if you read on, is unmistakably Jesus.
"He came unto his own, and his own received him not."
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us."
"That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." Remember Jesus says "I am the light of the world."
So there is not question that the Word is Jesus.
In verse one it says that Jesus was with God and WAS GOD. Pretty clear to me.
The reason why this passage is under constant attack is because of it's clearity. Every single version out there (except for the NWT, of course) says "the Word was God."
I think it is very ignorant for anyone to say that I am the one twisting Scripture when it is stated plainly that Jesus is God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.Now anyone who is a student in the Bible knows there is ONE INDEPENDANT CREATOR. Isaiah 44:24, "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself"
So the Biblically unbased proclamation that Jehovah used Jesus to create the universe is falsified.
Question: How can God be three and one at the same time?
Answer: "He cannot be three and one in the same sense. In what sense can He be one and three? A perfectly satisfactory answer to this question is manifestly impossible from the very nature of the case: (1) God is infinite, we are finite. He "dwells in the light no man can approach unto." Our attempts at a philosophical explanation of the tri-unity of God is an attempt to put the facts of infinite being into the forms of finite thought, and of necessity can be, at the best, only partially successful. This much we know, that God is essentially one, and that He is also three. There is but one God: but this one God makes Himself known to man as Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and they are sparate personalities." -- R.A. TorreyWhat "unitarians" are saying is that God, in fact, can't do everything. That it would be impossible for Him to send Himself to die for our sins. Putting limitations on God is a dangerous game to play. For "with God all things are possible." (Mark 19:26)
A unitarians unbelief in the trinity is a manifestion of their unbelief in the Bible.
Another verse attacked for it's clearity: 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
The fact is God did pay for our sins. Jesus is God. That is a very Biblically based statement.Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." God purchased the church with his own blood.
Revelation 1:7-8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."
And they also WHICH PIERCED HIM. Now he who was pierced is now speaking in the next verse.
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
HE WHO WAS PEIRCED IS THE ALPHA AND OMEGA.Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting."
This is a prophecy about the Messiah. It is stated that the Messiah has an EVERLASTING PAST. Who has an everlasting past but God?
Don't ever say that I twist scripture when such clearity is used in these passages.--and herk, I'm sorry if I'm such a smart alec wise guy, but it makes me mad that people can't see (and when they do, deny) the obvious.
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Reborn...you make me sit back, scratch my head and think "why is this guy in here?" Last time I checked this was about doctrine, more specifically the Trinity. Not about you throwing in your two cents which isn't going cause anyone to go down the hopeless road of an atheist.
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Pleasuredome, this passage is talking about the role of the Son and Father in the Trinity.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
This passage says that Jesus is the image the invisible God, and that he created everything in existence, and there was nothing before him.
The "first born" is speaking of Jesus's incorruptible resurrection.
Corinthians 15:19,20 mirros this: "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."Acts 20:28 "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of GOD, which he hath purchased with his OWN blood." Now this verse says that God purchased the church with his own blood. But wasn't Jesus Christ who shed his blood?
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Herk, I will make this easy for you, explain this one verse.
Is. 44:6-7 "Thus saith the Lord [Jehovah] the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord [Jehovah] of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord [Jehovah] in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord [Jehovah] of hosts hath sent me unto thee."
This is just a cross reference: Isaiah 44:24, "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" Remember, there is one independant creator.
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Let me get this straight...the Trinitarians are the bad guys
Herk claims he knows every trinitarians deepest subconcious thoughts and he says somone is on drugs.
Dakota has become so stuck on himself he calls me a child and he is "going to go talk to the adults now".
Joseph says the trinity isn't in the Bible but he believes in several gods. -
740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Herk, thats all fine and dandy, but your interpretation doesn't stand up against the weight of Scripture. The Messiah is God. It's not only in the NT but all over the OT.
Isaiah 6-7 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, the everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."
In this passage the Messiah is prophecied. He is called the Everlasting Father and the Mighty God. So, herk, are you saying that there are two mighty Gods and two Everlasting Father. The Jews knew from passages like this who the Messiah was going to be - God Himself.Do I have to quote Isaiah 44:6-7 again? "Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee."
Zechariah 2:10-11 "Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith the Lord. And many nations shall be joined to the Lord in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
Here is another passage which basically says the same thing as in Isaiha. The Lord (in this passage tranlsated as Jehovah) sends the Lord (Jehovah) to dwell with His people. Jehovah even says "I WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF THEE." Sorry Herk, your interpretations have fallen.
Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting"
This passage says the Messiah has an everlasting past. No creator!
Can the Deity of Christ be any more obvious than this?Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
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740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
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SwedishChef
Gumby, if you read some his posts it's obvious he's not saved. Dakota doesn't trust the Bible, He hates fundamentalism because it teaches the Bible's message. That all who reject Jesus Christ is condemned, but those who repent, believe, and place their trust on Jesus Christ is saved.
Dakota has no religion, he preferrs to view God as he wishes. He has become a law unto himself. (Romans 2:14)
My one question is this for Dekota: how can you trust Jesus's message if it was not perfectly preserved? -
740
The Trinity
by meadow77 intop reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.
their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.
the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.
-
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SwedishChef
Dakota, now that I know exactly how you believe, I realize it was pointless to debate you in the first place. You give little regard to Scripture and you condemn someone who places their faith on it and believes what it says. You condemn someone who hold's to Jesus's words "my words shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35)
If God can speak the universe into existence, He can preserve His word. I am a Fundamentalist, all that means is I hold the Word of God as the supreme authority.
You, right now, are in an apostate, unless you repent and trust in Jesus Christ you will be condemned. Thats Bible teaching.