Posts by SwedishChef

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

Earnest,
"John 10:30 seems to say that two forms is sufficient to be one God."
The Holy Spirit is not being addressed in John chapter 10, Jesus was talking about Himself and the Father. Just because the Spirit is not mentioned doesn't mean He has no role.

I have a body and a mind, and these are one. That's a true statment, but does that mean I don't have a soul just because I didn't mention it? Would I be human if I had a body, mind, but no soul? No, I need all of these to be human. From passages I quoted in the past, the Holy Spirit is certainly a part of God.

"Does this mean that God is not only spirit but also partly human?"

The entire concept of Jesus being man and God at the same time is a mystery which we cannot fully comprehend, and yet it is what the Bible teaches.
"1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Philippians 2:5-11 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

Earnest,

The Father and Son are one, but God would not be God without the Holy Spirit. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." The three make one God.

My personal interpretation of the Trinity:

The Father is the mind/will. Jesus is the manifestation of the will of the Father. "Word was with God...and Was God" John 1:1, Jesus is "the image of the invisible God" Col 1:15, "God was manifest in the flesh", I Tim 3:16, He does "the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30.
The Holy Ghost is the very Spirit of God, the very power of Him.
Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life."
I've already gone over how Jesus identified Himself with the Holy Ghost in John chapter 14.

How can this be? God has manifested Himself in three forms, each presented to us as having personalities, and yet they are one God.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

Can you explain any of the Old/New Testament comparisons that I made in the other post?

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

"Oh my! You mean, there is an error in your KJV?"

I never said the KJV is perfect, I said it's the best one out there. Sure, on a few occasions a better word choice could have been used.

In light of Scripture, most theologists agree that Christ is the "source" or "beginner" of God's creation.

You said "Hebrews 1:1,2 show that God created THROUGH Jesus, not Jesus acting on his own."

This is true, but this explains the relationship within the Godhead. The Word is the manifestation of the will of the Father.
Colossians 1:16,17 "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."
John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Jesus is the creator, and there was nothing that he didn't make. Try reading the Genesis account - one God made EVERTHING.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."
Isaiah 44:24, "Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

I think the Bible is pretty clear that the is ONE Creator. The Bible identifies Him as Jesus. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Anyone can see, Dekota, that if ONE person ALONE made something, than it did not take two, as you are saying.

If I am so easily decieved, then how do you explain these verses?

How about these:

Isaiah 45:23 "I [Jehovah] have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Philippians 2:10,11 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

See a similarity?

Zechariah 12:10 "And I [Jehovah] will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Revelation 1:7,8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Tell me, Dakota, how is it that in Zechariah 2:10 Jehovah himself says "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced"?
Revelation 1:7,8 perfectly reflects this passage in Zechariah.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

Hello Earnest,
You said...
"What does it mean ? What do you think it means ? Does it mean I and the Father are one God ? Or I and the Father are one in nature ? Or I and the Father are one in substance ? Or I and the Father are one in will/purpose ? Or I and the Father are one in mind ? Or...whatever."

I believe to answer this question we, of course, have to take the verse in context.

John 10:25-33 "Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

By reading this verse in context, we see that this is not talking about "one in will". Jesus really meant that He and His Father were one.
"Does it mean I and the Father are one God?" Yes, I believe so.

Notice that Jesus says "my sheep hear my voice...I give unto them enternal life...neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Now, His sheep are in His hand, right?
Then Jesus identifies the sheep as being in the Father's hand. "No man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand." So, who's hand are the sheep in, the Father's or Christ's? The answer is both. This is completely validated by what Jesus says next, "I and my Father are one." Taking this in context, I can't see how someone comes up with "one in will."
This interpretation is validated even further by the Jews reaction -- they knew what Jesus was saying. "For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." And they attempted to stone Him.

78

Calvinism

by Calvinist02 in

the basic 5 points of calvinism.

1. total depravity- all men are sinners.

we are totally corrupt and wicked.

SwedishChef

avishai,
You said "Who are you to say that I have'nt? Are you saying you know my spritual beliefs?"

Judging by this post you made, I can pretty much tell your not a Bible believer.

"Why the hell would God make people like this? Is this a joke? Oh, wait, religion is the big joke. Including calvinism. Wow. No, I'm not a calvinist. God, how irretrievably stupid do people have to be"

The things in this post:
1) Bad language
2) All religion is a joke
3) the taking of the Lord's name in vain
4) name calling

I don't know what your spiritual beliefs are, avishai, but unless you didn't mean anything you said in that post, I am prone to believe that you haven't gone to Christ for salvation, and that you have little regard for Scripture. The truth is, avishai, personal beliefs don't add up to a hill of beans if they are not founded upon Biblical truths. The Bible says "now is the day of salvation."
I don't mean in this in a smug or arrogant manner, I am telling you this because I know it to be true. If you have any questions concerning the Bible or salvation, feel free to e-mail me.

189

Donkey's never-ending atheism thread

by donkey in

wih the permission of simon, i would like to start a thread to act as a collection of thought, quotes and miscellany on atheism and agnosticism.

there are so many other threads on this subject but no one place which one can go to on here.

i have much to share - enjoy and contribute with me please.give me the storm and stress of thought and action rather than the dead calm of ignorance and faith.

SwedishChef

The teleological argument is also known as the argument from design. Quite simply, it states that a designer must exist since the universe and living things exhibit marks of design in their order, consistency, unity, and pattern.
A typical analogy of this is the Watchmaker which was given by William Paley (1743-1805). The argument goes as follows. If you found a watch in an empty field, you would logically conclude that it was designed and not the product of random formation. Likewise, when we look at life and the universe, it is natural to conclude there is a designer see we see how perfectly the universe and life forms operate. The eye is typically used as an example of design. It is a marvelous development. In order for it to work there must be many different convergent parts that individually have no function but have value only in a designed whole. It is only in the combined total do they exhibit their total function. This function is by design.
Paley's argument is as follows:

Human artifacts are products of intelligent design.

The universe resembles human artifacts.

Therefore the universe is a product of intelligent design.

But the universe is complex and gigantic, in comparison to human artifacts.

Therefore, there probably is a powerful and vastly intelligent designer who created the universe.

Strengths of the argument

This argument is simple to understand and has merit since humans are designers by nature and it is natural to think in terms of things having purpose. It is also consistent with Rom. 1:20,

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

I think the teleological argument carries weight because it is consistent with Scripture. The Bible states that we are made in God's image. Therefore, there are certain things that we will resonate to. Even though the unbeliever suppresses the truth of God in his unrighteousness (Rom. 1:18-32), the truth is still there.
Additionally, evolutionists have difficulty accounting for apparent design in objects like the eye, the heart, and the brain where many different parts come together to form the whole. These individual parts have no purpose except in the function of the whole. How can evolution account for these detailed congruent occurrences? So far, it can't.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

Dakota, you said:
"One final scripture lifted from the KJV which is the only Bible some wish to follow;
Revelation 3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; these things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"

This word Greek "arche", which is "beginning" in the KJV can be better translated as "source."

Romanized arche
Pronounced ar-khay'
from GSN0756; (properly abstract) a commencement, or (concretely) chief (in various applications of order, time, place, or rank):

KJV--beginning, corner, (at the, the) first (estate), magistrate, power, principality, principle, rule.

Strongs literal:
14. |2532| And |3588| to the |0032| angel |3588| of the |1577| congregation |2993| in Laodicea |1125| write: |3592| These things |3004| says |3588| the |0281| Amen, |3588| the |3144| Witness |4103| faithful |2532| and |0228| true, |3588| the |0746| Source |3588| of the |2937| creation |3588| of |2316| God.

The Geneva bible notes also say "Of who all things that are made, have their beginning." "The beginning of the creation of God" means "the Source of the creation of God." Jesus is the source of all creation, as John chapter 1 and Colossians chapter 1 states.

740

The Trinity

by meadow77 in

top reasons the wts is lying about the trinity.

their translation of john 1:1 is not only a complete farce but falls apart upon closer examination of their own beliefs.

the insertion of the phrase a god, instead of god is just a clear misinterpretation.

SwedishChef

Comparing some Old Testament passages with some New:

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him (Jesus), I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

Mark 1:1-3 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."

John 8:57,58 "Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."

Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Philippians 2:10,11 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [Jesus] shall be saved."

Zechariah 12:10 "And I [Jehovah] will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Revelation 1:7,8 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Zechariah 14:9 "And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Revelation 17:14 "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Matthew 26:15 "And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver."

8

Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God

by SwedishChef in

by jonathan edwards.

deuteronomy 32:35.

"their foot shall slide in due time.".

SwedishChef

spinner
Just for the record, I didn't write this. Jonathan Edwards, a preacher who lived in the 1700s, did.