If God spoke to a man and told him to write down what he said, how are we to distinguish this writing from other people who say God spoke to them? We know the human beings can lie about anything for any reason. If a writing supposedly contains prophesy, some say it wasn't prophesy and was written after the fact. If something was written one hundred years ago and was considered correct in the sciences of the time, it would probably be thrown out today. Things we know to be true today will change just like they always have as far as the sciences are concerned. If God spoke to you about how things came into being, would he have to lie to you in order for you to believe him because of what you consider to be scientific fact?
Posts by Chap
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40Is the baby being thrown out with the bath water?
by Chap inif god spoke to a man and told him to write down what he said, how are we to distinguish this writing from other people who say god spoke to them?
we know the human beings can lie about anything for any reason.
if a writing supposedly contains prophesy, some say it wasn't prophesy and was written after the fact.
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Chap
I'm From Long Island; I guess if you want to get further east than me, you have to live in the Atlantic Ocean.
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Jesus Resurection, Voodoo trick or for real?
by seedy3 ini just watched a program about voodoo magic, one point they discussed was the zombies.
the voodoo witchdoctors have the ability to give a person a poison that slows down the bodies system funtions so slow that even modern medical equipment can not pick it up, then a little later when no one is looking they go out dig up the "body" and resurect them.
now given this point is it at all possible?
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Chap
Hi seedy, are you saying that Jesus exists now? If Jesus' death was a hoax, it can be said that it was the greatest hoax in human history. If I am not mistaken, it has been recently discovered that there is a thin line of water that surrounds the human heart. With that in mind, here is a quote from John.
John 19:34 King James Version
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.If Jesus wanted to pick a death hoax, why would he choose crucifixion; one of the most torturous if not the most torturous ways to die. Basically, it is death by aphixiation. Every time a person who was hanging on the cross wanted to take a breath, he had to push himself up. If a person took a drug to fall into a sort of sleep, he would have died because he wouldn't be able to push himself up to take breaths. Anyway, if he wasn't dead before the soldier put his sword to him, he surely was dead afterwards.
Jesus got 39 stripes before he was even put on the cross. The whips used in those days to scourge people had bones, glass, and other small sharp objects on them so the person being whipped litterally got his flesh torn off his body. If Jesus survived, his sorry state would not have inspired hope in resurrection.
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Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?
by Chap ina while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
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Chap
"on the third day he appeared to them restored to life...and the sect of Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared."
This is a quote of Josephus' writings in which Mulan wrote;
"This is generally considered to be a forgery."
Mulan, are you saying all of Josephus' writings are considered forgeries or just the one I quoted? Where did you get the info?
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Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?
by Chap ina while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
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Chap
There are more than enough evidences to 'stop Mormonism in its tracks', yet it still flourishes. The same is true with Christianity.
The culture of ancient Jerusalem was far different than America was in the 17th century or how America is today. There were other self proclaimed "Messiahs" who were brutally killed. Their followers had a choice to be killed as well or give up there claims. They usually gave up. One of the gospels recorded a Jewish ruler reasoning with the others saying to the effect don't kill him (Jesus) because if he is the real Messiah, we will be in trouble with God but if he is not, the events will play themselves out and his followers will scatter. I can't think of where the passage is now but I'll find it if you want. There was no freedom of religion in ancient Israel. The proclaiming of Christ's resurrection to the death by numerous people is evidence for Christianity, not against it.
Although Mormons may claim that Joseph Smith was martyred, witnesses of his day attest to his lack of morals. His neighbors basically called him a compulsive liar. I can't remember why Joseph Smith went to jail the time before he died but the circumstances were far different than Jesus. No one claimed Jesus was immoral. Although the old time Mormons were persecuted, they were free to move elsewhere, which they did.
There isn't slaughter going on in this country for ones religious views. However, there are people in the middle and far east being murdered for simply professing that they are Christians.
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Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?
by Chap ina while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
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Chap
No one has answered this question
Have I established that the resurrection of a life is possible?
This thread has turned into another creation vs. evolution argument and I guess that is partly my fault but I would like to make some points about the resurrection of Jesus. Since no one answered the question, I guess I will assume that everyone believes that the resurrection of a life is possible.
1 Cor. 15:3-7 King James Verion
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: [5] And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: [6] After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. [7] After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.This is the earliest known christian creed and can be traced back to within eight years of the crucifixion. Paul wrote it down later in what we have as the first letter to the Corinthian Church. For an event to become a fable, wouldn't there be need of more time to pass than eight years?
The Gospel of Mark (which had the backing of Peter) could be traced to on or before 37 A.D. for this reason; he does not mention the name of the high priest (Caiaphas). This would be like me saying that the president gave orders to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. If I wrote this in say 1942, the people would understand which president I was referring to. Since different high priests emerged before the writing of the other gospels, they included the name Caiaphas in their books.
Where is Jesus' body? All someone had to do to stop Christianity in its tracks was to produce the body.
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King James Bible and the WTS
by robhic ini could swear i saw a quote or something saying that years ago (obviously before the nwt) the wts considered the king james version of the bible as the best one available.. i posed this question on another group and so far have had no luck.
it may have very well been on this site somewhere but i have back-tracked as much as i can and still haven't found the post i saw this in.
anybody have any ideas or know where this statement can be found?
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Chap
I was never a JW but I believe that only in the last 40 to 50 years have there been noteworthy Bible Translations in English other than the King James Version.
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Does God exist outside of Time?
by D wiltshire indoes god exist out side of our dimension of time?.
our view of time has changed over the centuries.
for the longest time,.
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Chap
"Time stops if you reach the speed of light."
Is that true or can something catch up to the speed of time, making it seem like time stops? Maybe the speed of time and the speed of light are the same. I don't think anyone knows what happens when something travels faster than the speed of light because it has not been observed. I think what would happen if it were possible is that the object would exist in multiple places at the same time. I do not think our eyes can see true light; only the lower spectrum of it. I think if we were able to see true light, we would be able to see God as he really is. I don't know how to explain this thought so it would make sense but I think light is the barrier between man and God which was caused by sin or mankind's decision to serve himself rather than serve God.
As to the question does God exist outside of time? I do not believe so. I think God is time. I think God is light. There are many names for God in the Bible because any one of them could not be accurate. If God is omnipresent, he must by definition exist in every place at every time. So as we are moving through time, in a sense we are moving through God. As we move through the past, God is still there. As we come to the future, God is still there. I guess what I am saying is God is infinity. The problem with this is the question "is this desk God"? I don't think you can call this desk God but I think God exists in the atoms of this desk.
I guess that is enough craziness for one day.
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Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?
by Chap ina while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
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Chap
A while ago, I think Abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for Christ's resurrection in response to something I wrote. I believe I stated that if Jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
That was part of the original post of this thread. I will try to stick to biblical or non biblical evidence that Jesus Christ in fact rose from the dead.
Can we agree that it would be easier for a person to rise from the dead than to create life if in fact the same person that created life rose from the dead? There seems to be people with the belief that the resurrection could not have happened because it is a supernatural event. Could we also say that the universe and everything in it got here by a supernatural event? I think that the resurrection of a body that has been dead for three days is less extraordinary than the beginnings of this universe. Christianity supposes that the creator of the universe dwelt in a being that he created. Is this plausible? I think so. If the creator can create life, why would it be hard for him to restore a life that already was? Have I established that the resurrection of a life is possible?
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Proof of the resurection of Jesus Christ?
by Chap ina while ago, i think abaddon and others asked for secular accounts for christ's resurection in response to something i wrote.
i believe i stated that if jesus didn't rise from the dead, everything else in christianity would be moot.
in a book called can christianity be proven?
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Chap
I see where my quote can be taken the wrong way; let me clarify.
When there have been disagreements between secular history and biblical history, when there has been conclusive archaeological evidence, it has come down on the side of the Bible every single time.
Francois, I changed the topic to refute the argument that discussing proof of the resurrection is moot. I'm sorry but I didn't see any other way to refute the argument. I guess I should have just accepted your point thereby ending the thread.