Posts by DJS

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

EOM,

I'm not an expert on health issues and won't play like I am. But a few years ago my daughter, who was expecting twins, discussed her concerns about vaccines (based on the comments made by Jenny McCarthy, another conspiracy theorist who has done more harm than can be imagined) and other news reports. I proceeded to conduct a lot of academic level research for her. This was a serious matter. I was surprised to learn that at least for the types of vaccines my daughter was concerned about there had been more very good research by several different countries than any other issue ever.

None of the very good studies showed any correlation between the type of vaccines my daughter was concerned about (i.e, the Jenny McCarthy vaccines) and the issues of concern (such as autism, etc.). None of them. I shared those studies with her (I think they were done by the Brits, U.S. and Dutch, but that's been about 5 years ago and my memory isn't perfect).

Governments have a compelling reason to get it right with vaccines. The U.S. has been critiized for delaying the implementation of vaccines and other meds for decades because of their requirements (can you say thalidomide?). They don't always get it right, but to think that there is some nefarious dark force behind such decisions is ridiculous. I hurt for Jenney; I really do. But once again a knee jerk, reactionary, emotional and irrational response to such events is not the answer. Vaccines, and their effects of peoples, are one of the most studied topics around the globe, for a good reason. The data is there.

Snare, weigh in. You are an expert in this area.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

BOTR,

Yes, I have experienced much the same, but the individuals I work with there are typically bright, caring and competent. But trying to accomplish a lot within that structure, as you state, is a challenge. But the people I'm talking about worked in field offices before going into 'management.' The people I work with who respond to such incidents (both in the government and private secotors) typically have advanced degrees in stuff like blast engineering, forensics, nuclear engineering, etc., or they have degrees in emergency response and advanced training in Incident Command. They are not without flaws, but the bad ones are few compared to the good ones.

The typical consipracy theorist has a high school diploma and an Internet account.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

I wouldn't say they are all fake, but I've seen no rational factual evidence based support for any of them. When I do I will change my mind about the one with actual facts. I feel the same way about god; if she ever shows up with the other super heroes in Times Square and does something cool I will become a believer. Conspiracy theorists don't seem to understand that EVERYONE associated with their pet has to be stupid, incompetent, kept in the dark, corrupt and/or bought. That strains credibility.

I have friends who have conducted hundreds of investigations, one was a former FBI agent, then a high ranking gov. offiicial (now retired). The other was a former DOE investigator turned director who is now my co-worker. They were both impeccably trained and both have the highest ethical standards. My friend is working on his second Master's degree (this one I think is in the Psychology of Abnormal Human Behavior or something like that). These are men you want on that wall. Neither have ever been asked to conspire and neither would have if asked. They are very very good at what they do and are guided, unlike theorists and so many on this site, by facts. And they have investigated some of the more high profile incidents in this country over the past few decades.

These are the types of individuals responsible for investigating the Sandy Hook and 9/11 type incidents. They are often supported by other country's intel agencies who concur or agree with assessments (they all share data). They are not stand alone operating in a vacuum people. To extrapolate that all of those responsible for these types of incidents are all stupid, incompetent and corrupt defies rationality and is simply untrue. And that is what would have to occur for most of the conspiracy theories to be true.

How would the typical theorist feel if he/she was criticized, condemend and accused from others who were not familiar with their profession and how they responded to an issue. Whether teacher, banker, window washer or candle stick maker, it is extremely likely that the theorists take pride in what they do and would consider themselves experts at doing it. Yet they quckly arrive at their arrogant narcissistic judgments over events and incidents not of their knowledge and out of their scope of understanding and condemn all of those involved as being incompetent and corrupt.

I have a healthy degree of cynicism and skepticism, but I have been trained to rely on facts and evidence, something which theorists find distasteful. I see that on this site routinely, a knee-jerk, reactonary, emotional and immature immediate response to events, casting judgment at those responding or investigating.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

Number 3 and my personal all-time favorite. I don't think I need to add anything to this - or even post anything other than the heading - except to note that Ms. O'Donnel is an actress and NOT a PhD in blast engineering or a structural engineer (I work with several).

May 16, 2007 - 9/11 conspiracy theorists rally around Rosie O'Donnell.

OK I"m through. For now.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

Number 2:

Haven't the Republicans and theorists ever heard of capatilism? If I'm a maker of bullets, I'm ramping up production and/or buying from others to meet the demand. If the DHS was doing this (and they aren't) it is a very short term sure to fail strategy. Effing DUH.

April 2013, Republicans embrace conspiracy theory that DHS is buying up ammo

"James Inhofe and Jim Jordan believe the Obama Administration is trying to curb access to bulletsOklahoma Sen. Jim Inhofe and Rep. Frank Lucas have introduced a bill that would prohibit every government agency — except the military — from buying more ammunition each month, than the monthly average it purchased from 2001 to 2009.

The lawmakers say the Obama administration is buying up exceedingly high levels of ammunition in an attempt to limit the number of bullets the American public have access to on the open marketplace."

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

Pardon me if conspriacy theorists particularly annoy me.

Conspiracy theorists have many tools, but two of the most common are pointing out the incosinstencies associated with official accounts and media reports immediately following an incident and blaming the government, typically without any factual data whatsoever. Take a look at this media account (you can google it), as it captures unintentionally the exact mindset employed by theorists:

"The official account of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting[1] has been disputed by a number of conspiracy theories. It is widely accepted that on December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza fatally shot his mother, and 20 students and 6 staff members, at the elementary school before committing suicide.[2] Proponents of these conspiracy theories question the circumstances of the shooting with Adam Lanza as the sole perpetrator by using early media reports that included inconsistencies about the identity of the shooter, wrong photos, incorrect location of victims, [3] weapons used[4] and other alleged misinformation[5][6] as evidence for their claims.

And suggesting the shooting was orchestrated by government officials for political reasons,[7] similar to some 9/11 conspiracy theories which many also promote the theories alleging government involvement in the attack claim that it was set up to push stricter gun control laws."

Media accounts and reports from 'offiicials' and those on the scene immediately following any crisis will rarely be correct. Well meaning people are trying to make sense of the carnage before them and provide information, consolation, etc. to others and once a microphone or camera is placed before them will try to do so. They are well intentioned.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

Snare,

Yes. But considering the number of people who have already read this, the idea of conspiracy theories in general needs to be addressed rationally. Over 240 people have read this OP to this point with only 7 posts to it, which makes it of interest to a lot of people). Lots of nefarious things are done, but light is typically quickly shed on those, at least in the democratic countries. The theories to which I am referring are those identified in the link and the most common: JFK, Roswell, 9/11, etc.

The life cycle of a typical conspiracy theory is well known: how it comes to life and how life is breathed into it. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield orchestrated and manipulated the U.S. into Iraq, completely without warrant. I don't view that as conspiracy, simply ego and mismanagement, which is why one of the best government servants of the past 50 years - Colin Powell -left the Bush administration and government service. True conspiracy theories vs. the need for secrecy vs. complete mismanagement (and the subsequent coverup). They are very different things.

38

Which Conspiracy Theory Should You Believe?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katieheaney/which-conspiracy-theory-should-you-believe-in.

it's a quiz to help you pick a conspiracy theory that fits you.

i ended up with "moon landing was faked" which doesn't exactly apply.. .

DJS

Love Blade Runner. As to conspiracy theories, I don't belive any of them. Moreover, I believe those who seek out conspiracy theories are arrogant, egotistical and delusional. They are similar to some on this site who have 'special knowledge' of god/jesus which no one else has. I work with 2 such nuts, both of whom are engineers and should know better.

Richard Clarke, former chief counter terrorism advisor, in his book "Against All Enemies - Inside America's War on Terrorism" addresses the various consipacy theories associated with 9/11 and in general by stating something I have said for dacades. Men simply aren't that bright. They can't create such theories and no one can keep a secret.

Think about Bush, Rumsfield and Cheney. Really? Mo, Larry and Curley could have done it better. I have worked closely with middle and high ranking government offiicials for many years, from a variety of law enforcement, military, security, homeland security, etc. organizations and this is what I have noticed. Almost all of them are capable and care deeply about America, the world and doing the right thing. They are often placed in positions of oversight or decision making above their abilities and competencies, and they try to make the best decision possible. Or they simply make decisions, in the moment, that are 'right' and 'correct' for that moment. Monday morning arm chair quarterbacking serves no purpose. Are they sometimes influenced by political and other pressures? Of course. They are human.

None of them have the smarts - and in my experience the inclination - to think of, nurture and protect conspiracies, especially to the degree the conspiracy theorists believe.

Every conspiracy theory has been de-constructed by experts, line item by line item. But the theorists still believe. Identical to theists.

31

Are my children in danger of being indoctrinated if I let them spend the night with their JW family?

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

so... i'm writing because i have mixed feelings.

keeping my kids safe is my goal... until they are old enough to understand and reason on their own.

my mother gave me the tapes (that i gave her back in december) of combating mind control by steven hassan, saying that she didn't have a tape player... reminded me of three years ago when i gave her crisis of conscience by ray franz and she said it's to big book to read and she's not a reader.

DJS

Snare,

A better reponse to mine. I considered that, but if Butterfly sets the rules of engagement I don't see these grandparents respecting them. And considering their need to push their JW beliefs, this may be a non-starter. Butterfly????

31

Are my children in danger of being indoctrinated if I let them spend the night with their JW family?

by Butterflyleia85 in

jw
friends

so... i'm writing because i have mixed feelings.

keeping my kids safe is my goal... until they are old enough to understand and reason on their own.

my mother gave me the tapes (that i gave her back in december) of combating mind control by steven hassan, saying that she didn't have a tape player... reminded me of three years ago when i gave her crisis of conscience by ray franz and she said it's to big book to read and she's not a reader.

DJS

Ditto to Cofty's suggestion.

2 types of worship???? Really Catface? Aren't there a few thousand Xtian beliefs alone? And why limit the kid to Xtians? If you are going down that road why not attend Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist churches?

I suggest allowing them to be chlldren and choose for themselves when they grow up as to whether they want to be religious. Butterfly you don't seem to be driven by theism, just afraid of the Borg's brand of theism. Would some or a lot of grandparents/family respect your views and not try to indoctrinate your kids with JW crap? Yes. Based on the experiences you have related it doesn't appear your family will follow that route. They will likely use the time available to turn your kids into little Dub-bots. Teach your children decency, honesty, kindness, generosity and ethics. Those are the important things and they have nothing to do with religion. And use your Sundays going to the park, hking, to mseums, movies or to the mall with your children. Make memories..