http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild_pedophilia_says_it_does_not_cause_lasting_harm/.
Ruby,
We have referenced this data before; it is widely available, and it comes from many sources. You can keep your head up your nether regiions and refuse to believe it if you wish. You clearly don't want the facts to confuse you. Being decent and ethical hasn't a thing to do with religion or a god. Nor should it.
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild_pedophilia_says_it_does_not_cause_lasting_harm/.
Saved_Jw
You haven't been paying attention. We have repeatedly shared empirical data illustrating that the more secular and atheistic a state, region or nation is, the more functional it is in almost every manner. Pick a dysfunciton, whether its gun play, homicide, divorce, drugs, smoking, alcohol abuse, car wrecks, spouse abuse, lack of education, low IQs - and they are more prevalent among religious states, regions and nations. There are strong correlations between atheism and:
1. The happiest countries in the world
2. The smartest (highest IQs) countries in the world
3. The most functional societies in the world
4. The most educated societies in the world
We have said this over and over, including sharing very good empirical data. And yet you spew that without your god - and left to atheists - we will go to hell in a handbasket. NOTHING could be further from the data.
i wonder if anybody else has wondered about the differences between those 2 flights?
in the malaysian flight that crashed from 30,000 feet high, tons of wreckage, body parts, bodies, documents, etc, all over the place.
yet in the pa flight 93, just a crater in the ground, no bodies, everything supposedly vaporized.
Conspiracy Theorists,
I came on this site a year ago after being out of the Borg for two complete decades. I didn't come on looking for anything; I certainly didn't need anything. I spent 20 years living life to the full. Some of it was planned and some of it was simply Forest Gumping my way to excellent adventure. My only reason for being on this site is to try to help my former bros and sis's to learn how to think analytically, rationally and objectively. It will improve your life, your personal relationships and likely your bank account.
Having said that, I came with my own personal objectives: 1. I won't attempt conversations with theists, especially those with nothing more than a high school diploma and some intense bible learnin'. 2. I won't feed trolls. 3. I won't enter discussions for which I am not a SME or I cannot offer something of value. and 4. I won't try to have a rational, intelligent discussion with dumbasses. Check my posting history; you will see I have kept very damn close to my objectives.
But LisaRose kindly (she's always kind, and wicked smart) reminded me I shan't call people dumbasses (I think I'm breaking some kind of rule. And the International Dumbass Society (IDS) was threatening legal action). So I started calling dumbasses - chimps. Then LisaRose kindly (she is so very balanced and fair) reminded me that I shan't call people chimps (I think I'm breaking some kind of rule). And the chimps were starting to clutter up my email, twitter and facebook accounts with angry rants, telling me that I was giving chimps everywhere a bad name. So I started calling people who simply cannot reason or discuss things intelligently or rationally - Neanderthals. Since they are extinct I think I am ok.
Anyway, I will put an end to the conspiracy theorists rants for all terrorist incidents in the US the past 15 years. I still have close contacts with current and former FBI field agents and Hq, including the head of the regional JTTF. Anyone with special knowledge of the 'real' reason any of these terrorists incidents occurred on US soil do the following:
PM me the name and contact information of the person with the special knowledge. Do not waste my time. Include the who/what/when/where/how/why of the information. The informations must be credible, the individual must be identifiable (so they can speak to him/her). I will forward this to the JTTF and I will assure you they will follow up.
I will await your reponses.
i wonder if anybody else has wondered about the differences between those 2 flights?
in the malaysian flight that crashed from 30,000 feet high, tons of wreckage, body parts, bodies, documents, etc, all over the place.
yet in the pa flight 93, just a crater in the ground, no bodies, everything supposedly vaporized.
I wondered when the conspiracy theorists amongst us would re-surface on this. Do you all have any idea how intensely these incidents are investigated? Between the NTSB and the FBI, who by law (2002) is the Incident Commander on all terrorists events in the US and who was the IC on this and other 9/11 incidents, this incident was analyzed and evaluated by the very best experts in the world. I have had the privilege of working with some of the individuals who respond to these, including the forensive pathologist (a PhD in forensics - dude came straight out of CSI) and a D-MORT specialist who responded to the WTC site. I was days away from being sent to the WTC site for a 4 month role, but circumstances changed.
In addition, literally hundreds of other local and regional agencies typically respond to these events, all under one command. They range from local law/fire/emeregency medical, etc. to regional/national experts, depending on what skillset is needed. It strains credibiilty to think that ALL of these experts would be either a part of the conspiracy or completely incompetent as to support the types of dumbass theories I see on the 'Net. The types of glaring would be inconsistencies 'noted' by the conspiracy theorists would be immediately noted by the cadre of professionals who work these incidents.
The PA incident is typical. The phone calls FROM the plane while it was in the sky are well known, including the very day of the incident. The black box supports that there was an attempt to breach the cockpit and the plane subsequently diving. There is no evidence within the black box that this plane was shot down. The plane reached the ground in one piece, and the rather soft re-claimed ground was a perfect place to enter without blasting into a billion pieces.
The US clearly indicated the day of these attacks that their air response was woefully inadequate and fighters were not able to respond quickly enough. All of this is a part of the record.
In addition, if 'someone' has 'special knowledge' of this event, or had such knowledge from a friend of a friend of a friend or a workmate of a workmate of a workmate, the NTSB and damn sure the FBI would have beaten a path to their door. To think that credible statements about this event would not have been listened to and verfiied if true is ridicuous to the nth degree.
I have said this before on this site: I KNOW these types of people. I have worked with many of them. They are the very best in the world at what they do, and believe it or not most of them are boyscouts, true blue, four square and love the US and the American Way. They receive some of the very best training on the planet and most have college degrees. The specialists often, as I stated, have advanced degrees and years of experience doing what they do. To place any credence in the 'Net conspriacy theories about this event and those like it is to believe in fairies, witches and hob-goblins.
Now that I've got that over, conspiracy theorists OTOH, typically have a high school dimploma and an Internet account.
i wonder if anybody else has wondered about the differences between those 2 flights?
in the malaysian flight that crashed from 30,000 feet high, tons of wreckage, body parts, bodies, documents, etc, all over the place.
yet in the pa flight 93, just a crater in the ground, no bodies, everything supposedly vaporized.
The conspiracy theorists take ANY mis-statement or erroneous news report and blow these incidents up into major conspiracies. Trust me, men aren't that bright. And in every crisis/incident, the first reports - sometimes even the second or third reports - are wrong, not because anyone means to deceive but simply because people are trying to make sense out of the non-sensical event which just occurred. Put a mic or tv camera in front of them and they will speak oftentimes without any knowledge.
i wonder if anybody else has wondered about the differences between those 2 flights?
in the malaysian flight that crashed from 30,000 feet high, tons of wreckage, body parts, bodies, documents, etc, all over the place.
yet in the pa flight 93, just a crater in the ground, no bodies, everything supposedly vaporized.
The Malaysian plane was blown apart in the air; the parts, etc. were scattered. The PA flight was flown direclty into the ground by the terrorists, sending the plane into the earth. From Wiki: During the attempt the plane crashed into a reclaimed strip mine in Stonycreek Township, near Indian Lake and Shanksville. A few witnessed the impact from the ground and news agencies began reporting the event within an hour."
Subsequent analysis of the flight recorders recovered from the crash site revealed how the actions taken by the passengers prevented the aircraft from reaching the hijackers' intended target."
There were also cell calls made by onboard passengers, in additon to the black box, so they have a very good idea of what transpired. If you read the idiotic conspiracy theorist websites you would think that Jack Ruby or the US government did it.
A ValuJet plane crashed into the Everglades a few years ago. It also was witnessed and the plane disappeared in similar fashion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.
Finally awake,
Why leave something so important to amateurs and beginners? I have a lot of experience getting women laid by other women and I have excellent taste. I volunteer for the project!!!!!
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild_pedophilia_says_it_does_not_cause_lasting_harm/.
VG,
I hope you understand that those of us you and a few others disagree with also want to protect the young. Vehemently. But fairly. BTW, some female chimps will eat the infants of their rivals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgekcfofaau.
Quendi,
While watching this very strange video, I was thinking the same thing. Me thinks he (they) doth protest too much. Once gay marriage is legalized everywhere in the US and the Western world - and it probably won't take long until that occurs - the Borg will be isolated even further. When the current young generation, over 80 percent of whom favor gay marriage, reaches the point where they begin to control and run things, the Borg will face even more pressures, as their front line leaders (elders, MS, COs, etc.) likely won't reallly give a rip about sexual preference.
Their rants and ravings, along with the other fundies, will seem more and more bizarre, arcane and outdated. Good for them. Let it come.
http://www.salon.com/2013/09/10/richard_dawkins_defends_mild_pedophilia_says_it_does_not_cause_lasting_harm/.
VG,
Very glad to see you using an easel and artist’s brush rather than a roller or spray gun. First, I know nothing of Richard Dawkins. Nothing. My atheism belongs to me, and the only people who influenced my atheism are Christians or Dubs.
Second, as I pointed out before, in my entire life in the Borg, including the nearly decade in the servant body (MS and elder), I was never on a JC, Re-instatement committee, counseling session or even aware of child sexual abuse in our congregation or any other. I spoke to a friend of mine the other night about this topic, asking him if he was ever aware of such. Like me he was in the Borg for decades and served in the servant body (and like me has been out for a long while). We are both intelligent, sentient, highly aware individuals. He also had no knowledge of any incidents. We are sure they occurred, but in our collective decades, much of which was spent in different cities/areas/congregations, neither of us heard of or experienced any JCs or cover-ups on this subject. Very nice to see your more moderate tone on this as well. Thank you.
And VG, we both were almost always aware of the reasons behind JC decisions, removal of privileges, DFing, marking, etc., based in part on being in the servant body, on JCs, etc., but primarily on the fact that when sh$$ happens people talk. Most things become fairly widely known apart from the elders. I know you want to believe otherwise, but the elders I dealt with were mature and kept confidential stuff confidential. I do not know if that was typical; likely not.
Dawkins is likely a highly rational person on the MBPTI scale. Such individuals typically speak in the manner in which he is relating his experiences and views. He probably isn't capable of forming the types of emotional responses that you feel so deeply and quickly. Neither of you are right in your responses; neither of you are wrong. Just different. I look at the context of his words, who he is and what he is trying to say and bring no value judgment to it. You and a few others read what he wrote and see red. That is ok. We are entitled to view his words/views based on our own personality types, our experiences, etc.
Having said that, there are varying differences in the types of offenses which fall into what constitutes sexual abuse of a child. Some are merely legal restrictions, which make absolutely no sense (I illustrated one). FTS illustrated what other cultures currently view as normal and acceptable; I alluded to them. Simon also gave simple but compelling examples.
Dawkins and others have alluded to past practices where similar behaviors were not considered wrong, immoral or abusive.
That does not mean that many of these practices shouldn’t be illegal and strictly enforced now, but it also doesn’t mean that rational thought, clear thinking and fair-mindedness shouldn’t be brought to this issue. And it certainly does not mean that those who do not share the extreme emotional reaction of some are secret closet pedophiles, which I have been accused of being on this site, because I agreed with the team of professionals (who spent months analyzing and evaluating Allen's behavior) and the judge and court system which did not castrate Woody Allen. I don’t know if he was guilty, but many experts believed that he wasn’t. Some may have thought he was but couldn’t find enough real facts and evidence to prove otherwise. I was routinely blasted by highly emotional, usually irrational people on this site because I didn't simply react and 'feel' the way they did.
Thanks again for the artist’s brush. Nice painting.
