Posts by DJS

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

DJS

Blondie,

Ditto. Plus the power.

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

DJS

Ditto to all comments. I wish I could say I'm surprised or shocked. Several years before my exit, a young, very attractive, sister, confessed to me that she had committed 'fornication" (I hate that word) a couple of years before with a 'wordily' man. Oral sex only. Anyway, the protocol was to have at least 2 elders to hear such confessions, but she hit me with this unexpectedly.

Like a good elder Dub, I brought it before the BOE. In their favor, because the sister had been regular (and by dub standards a model) and the incident had happened a few years before and there was no indication that it had been a practice, blah blah blah, they assigned another, older, elder to speak with her, along with me. Not a committee.

I was shocked when this elder (who was known in the circuit for being obsessed with sex) asked the young sister probing questions about the who/what/where/how/why/when. Stuff none of us needed to know.

Thankfully we took no action towards her other than this discussion, but this was another one of the bricks in my dub/theist wall that was removed because of his unnecessary probing. I'm sure she felt violated.

20

Futility of being right

by JWdaughter in

so, on another thread, about pluto, grreat teacher said something that speaks to my feelings about religon.

"i've kinda been sad since pluto has been demoted to dwarf planet.. you talk about 9 planets and all the little kids at school will correct you real quick and tell you that now there are only 8 planets in the solar system!".

nothing in the universe has changed but the opinion of men.

DJS

JWD,

Outstanding thread. Thank you. Having to be right is likely coded in our genes in some way as it is so prevalent. I suppose 'being right' was an advantage for 100,000 years to avoid being eaten or killed by the see-ums and the no seeums long enough to pass on DNA.

Somewhere along the line we coupled emotions and pride with it. I love this statement of yours: "What ugly thing inside us has to always be RIGHT? Especially when it doesn't matter?"

I've struggled with this like most have. Dub-land made it worse (see current thread on Dubs and Narcissism). Leaving religion behind has helped me greatly to overcome this tendency. I try to avoid political and religious discussions because they always end up in a wrestling match based on who is right/wrong. That feeds into the tendency to be 'right.'

A lot of my posts address a rational thought process; I am rational by nature but human by species, so I have to work each day to require evidence and avoid setting my feed in concrete in an emotional, irrational manner on any topic. But I still do it. Just not so much. Spock, where are you when we need you?

Anyway, JWD, great OP and I hope all of us read it and look in the mirror.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

Fink,

Well stated. And let's be honest. We can, with almost 100% accuracy, predict whether a poster is a theist or non-theist by reading their posts during secular, scientific or cultural issues that have nothing to do with religion or the bible and we don't know the theism of the poster. We all know it. This site is a laboratory in many ways. The dubs are the least educated and the poorest religious group in the US and likely other industrial lands. That doesn't directly correlate to IQ, but for god's sake we all know there is a correlation, a strong one.

It is common for a lot of the ex-dubs on this site to make definitive statements about whatever because that's how they have been programmed, either genetically, culturally (religious) or both. We rationals beat our heads against the wall on a regular basis trying to get posters to do some actual research before taking a concrete stand, with their tiny little fists clenched and their Hobbit feet deeply pushed into the concrete. Not budging. At all. And by research I don't mean confirmation biased research.

That, to me, is one of the best lessons derived from higher education. Having to develop and write research papers, including a Master's thesis (now working toward a PhD) teaches you to never, ever make definitive statements unless they are supported by reference (APA style) from empirically gathered data sources.

Having taught at two colleges as an adjunct prof, I taught my students the same thing. Papers with opinions or statements without empirical support were bled all over in red ink.

20

Breaking news: US mass shooting

by Simon in

it's getting to the point where cnn should start announcing "breaking news" if there *hasn't* been a mass shooting !.

it's crazy.. i was watching the 70's documentary they are running and that's the point when media hype about mass serial killers seemed to begin the danger-gun-solution hype cycle.

sure, people had guns before then but nowhere near like it is now.. when will it end?

DJS

The copycat theory appears to be supported by high level law enforcement experts. In addition, two other patterns appear to be prevalent amongst those involved with mass shootings. They typically are either angry old white men (a recognized syndrome) or Millenial males. Lots of people are studying the why-s, but I think we can guesstimate the contributing factors.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

Jhine and Caleb,

Numerous studies suggest the two most successful groups in the US, based on household income, are the Jews and Hindus. So religion isn't necessarily an impediment for success or intelligence, as Jews and Hindus, at least those in the US, typically rate high in overall IQ.

There are several reasons for this. Both Jews and Hindus (US) have cultures that encourage higher education, and both of these groups are among the highest educated in the US. Also, both of these groups are more likely to view being a Jew or a Hindu as a cultural identity rather than a religious one. I date a Hindu and know a lot of Hindus; their tolerance for other religions is exceeded, a lot of times, by their lack of interest in all things religious. Of course there are religious Hindus, but even they are doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs.

It is similar with Jews (sorry Caleb - you are the expert here, not me - I am simply quoting a dear friend of mine, which also is supported by studies). I have a very good Jewish friend who was one of my MBA profs. He has 2 doctorate degrees and is now a counselor at West Point. He keeps kosher, deeply respects his religion and its culture, traditions and legacy, won't date a non-JAP (Jewish American Princess when I asked) - and he is an atheist. He tells me this is common amongst US Jews. Their culture, as the Hindus, is vitally important to them. Religion, or even a belief in god, not so much.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

jhine,

They aren't my assertions. They are based on historical facts and current practices amongst lots of religious faiths, including the Dubs, many Fundamentalist churches, Islam, etc. If you will re-read my post, and I say the same thing every time, these studies - by individuals with doctorate degrees utilizing empirical methods - suggest correlations.

For thousands of years religious leaders have used emotions to control the rank and file. Throw them a miracle, a bleeding Jesus, weeping Madonna, an old shroud or appeal to their emotions for a better life by promises of pearly gates, playpens full of virgins and pandas but not before eradicating all the bad people - or people you just don't' like. It may as well be opium for the control it delivers. Give them anything that will make them feel and avoid thinking or requiring evidence about the men behind the curtain.

Appealing to emotions traps an individual driven largely by emotions and can even serve to hinder the growth of normally intelligent and rational people. And religion, any religion, is 99% emotional/irrational and 1% rational. In order to believe one has to ignore facts and bury one's head in the sand. Or just want to believe. Really, really want to believe.

Again, these are not my assertions. They are based on facts and the socio-evolutionary progress, or lack thereof, of humans. This isn't rocket science jhine. These are predictable outcomes. If it doesn't fit your church right now in the year 2015, that is excellent. It means x-tianity, at least some of it, is evolving - which I have alluded to previously. But jhine, look in your rear-view mirror at the recent and distant past of your church. It isn't likely pretty.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

Terry is citing references used before on this site. These studies suggest correlations, sometimes strong correlations between theism and (lower) intelligence, for example, or a lack of belief in evolution/science and (lower) intelligence in this example.

The studies never suggest direct correlations (cause/effect), because there isn't a direct correlation. As such, they are accurate. Of course there are intelligent theists and bible believers. But the only thing required for Faith is Feelings, and religious people often suffer from the very worst confirmation bias, as their leaders dictate to them what they can read/consider. Just like the Catholic church did for centuries and the Dark Lords have for a century. Sound familiar? The leaders know that when people begin using their entire intellect, the bible and theism will suffer. There isn't much expansion of the brain cells when all you 'study' is confirmationally biased tripe and the primary fuel for your engine and how and when you make decisions is emotions (e.g., Fisherman).

It's like one of my old college profs said, a man with a doctorate in divinity, the only place belief in god is in short supply is a seminary. Caleb's culture is different, so much so that it is likely anomalous to studies such as these.

This isn't rocket science.

323

Question and answers for fisherperson regardingy time at bethel

by _Morpheus in

so fisherperson sent me a pm asking a bunch of questions re my time at beth hell.

rather than respond in a pm i will post the q/a here as i have nothing to hide.

q:what years did you serve in brooklyn bethel?

DJS

Morph,

Fish is simply grasping for something that would appear to give him the moral high ground. He lacks the self control to avoid the keyboard and the humility to acknowledge calling you a liar and violating the site protocols. So he is keenly looking for something, anything, that might reverse the ass kicking he has received. To see the bottom right now Fish would have to look up.

Humility would do it, but he hasn't any of that. Fish, I'm trying to help you but you have to let me. Had you shown humility and managed this OP correctly, you would have owned it after 2 pages. Here we are on page 30 and you are looking sorrier and more pathetic with each of your posts. Help me. Help you.

Desperation talking. Pathetic, really.

25

Elderly sister disgusted with obscene Bethel 'Happy Song'

by Esse quam videri in

it is reported that one elderly sister in british columbia expressed complete disgust at what she considered an obscene act in the bethel 'happy song'.

now everything is, of course, subject to perspective.

i would imagine her perspective is just as valuable as anyone elses.

DJS

The only thing disgusting in this is the old lady's heart and mind and that she can't keep her narrow minded viewes to herself.