Posts by DJS

35

Article: Reveal News Organization: JWs Cover-Up of Child Sex Abuse and Oust a Victim

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.revealnews.org/article/jehovahs-witnesses-cover-up-child-sex-abuse-and-oust-a-victim/.

jehovahs witnesses cover up child sex abuse and oust a victim.

topics: criminal justice / religion .

DJS

Thanks Barbara, great article.

I'm glad Debbie, Crystal and Marley now have freedom to live their lives. I wish the Dubs would leave them alone; sadly, that doesn't seem to be the situation.

16

Back again!!

by Sweetp0985 in

jw
friends

back again since about 10yrs ago.

last year attended the international convention in new orleans and was feeling some type of way afterwards.

went to a couple of meetings and then the thrill was gone.

DJS

Welcome back! To sanity we hope. Possible reasons you continue to be drawn to the Dark Tower:

Masochist
Brain Dead Zombie
Opium (Religion telling you what to do and making you feel good) Addict
Ambition-less Drone Lacking Social and Psychological Skills to Compete in Today's World and commiserating with the Dubs feels comfortable and non-threatening
A part of you is hedging that they may be right (which is the scariest reason of all) and you fear the Big "A"
All of the Above

Just kidding. Welcome back.

45

Governing Body, painted in a corner, now what?

by Wasanelder Once in

the governing body have painted themselves in a corner, so to speak.

if they acknowledge their response to abuse claims was insensitive, unloving and inadequate they are denying the belief that "god's way" is best and risk losing abuse cases.

if they stick with it and say it is "god's way according to the bible" they will be seen as cult leaders and risk losing abuse cases.

DJS

I hope Lee Elder is right. He is a pioneer in the work to expose the Dark Lords' hurtful teachings and practices. When Lee talks, we should listen.

We don't know how many truly sentient people are left in the Dark Tower; many of them have already escaped. The brain dead, programmed, zombies may be all that are remaining. Let's hope that there are active brain cells in those who aren't zombies.

Combined with the post-2014 fall-out we should expect, this may result in myriads upon myriads (sorry, couldn't resist) finally opening their eyes to the Dark Lords and the Dark Tower. And that would be most excellent.

45

Governing Body, painted in a corner, now what?

by Wasanelder Once in

the governing body have painted themselves in a corner, so to speak.

if they acknowledge their response to abuse claims was insensitive, unloving and inadequate they are denying the belief that "god's way" is best and risk losing abuse cases.

if they stick with it and say it is "god's way according to the bible" they will be seen as cult leaders and risk losing abuse cases.

DJS

Who knows? I'm somewhere in the middle of Caleb's response. I believe the Dark Lords will spin this for all that it is worth and for every ounce of persecution complex they can get out of it. Their actions? They will most likely resist the superior authorities until they are at the cliff's edge.

I believe, at the end of the day, more rational business like heads will prevail and they will comply as minimally as possible.

The rhetoric designed for the rank and file, at least IMHO, is just that. I don't believe for a second they are such true believers as was Koresh when it comes to actions.

But I could be wrong. I hope I am. It would be nice to see the Dark Lords go up in figurative flames.

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

DJS

Blondie,

Ditto. Plus the power.

70

How Far Apart Were Your Legs?

by Joe Grundy in

several threads on here about the excellent bbc r4 programme this week ('the report') focussing on rape and abuse in barry, south wales, jws.

fat pervert mark sewell later got 14 years and i hope he is enjoying every minute of it.. the courageous ladies who spoke on the programme were articulate, reasonable and made a tremendous impression.. the quote in the thread title made an impression on me, and i hope, on all listeners.. forget religious, theological, 'biblical' issues and cut to the basics.

a rape victim was asked to demonstrate - to demonstrate, ffs - to three unqualified (middle-aged at least, presumably) men just how far her legs were apart when she was raped.. i have rarely heard anything so outrageous, and i used to investigate rape and abuse in my profession.

DJS

Ditto to all comments. I wish I could say I'm surprised or shocked. Several years before my exit, a young, very attractive, sister, confessed to me that she had committed 'fornication" (I hate that word) a couple of years before with a 'wordily' man. Oral sex only. Anyway, the protocol was to have at least 2 elders to hear such confessions, but she hit me with this unexpectedly.

Like a good elder Dub, I brought it before the BOE. In their favor, because the sister had been regular (and by dub standards a model) and the incident had happened a few years before and there was no indication that it had been a practice, blah blah blah, they assigned another, older, elder to speak with her, along with me. Not a committee.

I was shocked when this elder (who was known in the circuit for being obsessed with sex) asked the young sister probing questions about the who/what/where/how/why/when. Stuff none of us needed to know.

Thankfully we took no action towards her other than this discussion, but this was another one of the bricks in my dub/theist wall that was removed because of his unnecessary probing. I'm sure she felt violated.

20

Futility of being right

by JWdaughter in

so, on another thread, about pluto, grreat teacher said something that speaks to my feelings about religon.

"i've kinda been sad since pluto has been demoted to dwarf planet.. you talk about 9 planets and all the little kids at school will correct you real quick and tell you that now there are only 8 planets in the solar system!".

nothing in the universe has changed but the opinion of men.

DJS

JWD,

Outstanding thread. Thank you. Having to be right is likely coded in our genes in some way as it is so prevalent. I suppose 'being right' was an advantage for 100,000 years to avoid being eaten or killed by the see-ums and the no seeums long enough to pass on DNA.

Somewhere along the line we coupled emotions and pride with it. I love this statement of yours: "What ugly thing inside us has to always be RIGHT? Especially when it doesn't matter?"

I've struggled with this like most have. Dub-land made it worse (see current thread on Dubs and Narcissism). Leaving religion behind has helped me greatly to overcome this tendency. I try to avoid political and religious discussions because they always end up in a wrestling match based on who is right/wrong. That feeds into the tendency to be 'right.'

A lot of my posts address a rational thought process; I am rational by nature but human by species, so I have to work each day to require evidence and avoid setting my feed in concrete in an emotional, irrational manner on any topic. But I still do it. Just not so much. Spock, where are you when we need you?

Anyway, JWD, great OP and I hope all of us read it and look in the mirror.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

Fink,

Well stated. And let's be honest. We can, with almost 100% accuracy, predict whether a poster is a theist or non-theist by reading their posts during secular, scientific or cultural issues that have nothing to do with religion or the bible and we don't know the theism of the poster. We all know it. This site is a laboratory in many ways. The dubs are the least educated and the poorest religious group in the US and likely other industrial lands. That doesn't directly correlate to IQ, but for god's sake we all know there is a correlation, a strong one.

It is common for a lot of the ex-dubs on this site to make definitive statements about whatever because that's how they have been programmed, either genetically, culturally (religious) or both. We rationals beat our heads against the wall on a regular basis trying to get posters to do some actual research before taking a concrete stand, with their tiny little fists clenched and their Hobbit feet deeply pushed into the concrete. Not budging. At all. And by research I don't mean confirmation biased research.

That, to me, is one of the best lessons derived from higher education. Having to develop and write research papers, including a Master's thesis (now working toward a PhD) teaches you to never, ever make definitive statements unless they are supported by reference (APA style) from empirically gathered data sources.

Having taught at two colleges as an adjunct prof, I taught my students the same thing. Papers with opinions or statements without empirical support were bled all over in red ink.

20

Breaking news: US mass shooting

by Simon in

it's getting to the point where cnn should start announcing "breaking news" if there *hasn't* been a mass shooting !.

it's crazy.. i was watching the 70's documentary they are running and that's the point when media hype about mass serial killers seemed to begin the danger-gun-solution hype cycle.

sure, people had guns before then but nowhere near like it is now.. when will it end?

DJS

The copycat theory appears to be supported by high level law enforcement experts. In addition, two other patterns appear to be prevalent amongst those involved with mass shootings. They typically are either angry old white men (a recognized syndrome) or Millenial males. Lots of people are studying the why-s, but I think we can guesstimate the contributing factors.

35

DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom in

based on information to be found at: http://www.csicop.org/si/show/when_dont_the_highly_educated_believe_in_evolution_the_bible_believers_effe/.

the bible-believers effect.

those who believe the bible is the word of god (bible believers) and those who dont believe the bible is the word of god (bible nonbelievers) differ in their beliefs that humans evolved from earlier species of animals.

DJS

Jhine and Caleb,

Numerous studies suggest the two most successful groups in the US, based on household income, are the Jews and Hindus. So religion isn't necessarily an impediment for success or intelligence, as Jews and Hindus, at least those in the US, typically rate high in overall IQ.

There are several reasons for this. Both Jews and Hindus (US) have cultures that encourage higher education, and both of these groups are among the highest educated in the US. Also, both of these groups are more likely to view being a Jew or a Hindu as a cultural identity rather than a religious one. I date a Hindu and know a lot of Hindus; their tolerance for other religions is exceeded, a lot of times, by their lack of interest in all things religious. Of course there are religious Hindus, but even they are doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs.

It is similar with Jews (sorry Caleb - you are the expert here, not me - I am simply quoting a dear friend of mine, which also is supported by studies). I have a very good Jewish friend who was one of my MBA profs. He has 2 doctorate degrees and is now a counselor at West Point. He keeps kosher, deeply respects his religion and its culture, traditions and legacy, won't date a non-JAP (Jewish American Princess when I asked) - and he is an atheist. He tells me this is common amongst US Jews. Their culture, as the Hindus, is vitally important to them. Religion, or even a belief in god, not so much.