i just had a jw come to my door and i had to threaten her to get her to leave!
i told the woman right off i was 'apostate' and had no intention of changing it.
she kept asking me personal questions which i told her were none of her business and she said she would have the elders come by and i told her that if they came by the better be wearing bullet proof vests!
Hey, you know that thread I started about the silliness and brash hostility of some apostates? Yeah, you know the one "Apostate Logical Fallacies I and II"? Some of you wanted "proof" that some ex-dubs were "over the top" in their thinking. Well........HERE IT IS.
Bradley
how can anyone with more than a handful of neurons maintain confidence in the watchtower organization?.
as dumbing down of the organization deepens, together with stubborn rejection of compassion and good sense, the .
pressure on capable, half-way sane witnesses is intensifying.
truman,
Very interesting story; similar to one I had a few years ago. I was talking with my then-Presiding Overseer and he mentioned something that took me aback (I was a strong JW back then): "There are two types of people that do poorly in the truth: the really, really dumb and the really, really smart. It's good not to be too intelligent or too stupid."
At the time I was curiously perplexed. I could understand the "dumb" part -- I saw plenty of those leave (usually only to return beaten up) -- but that the really "smart" could have a tough time in the religion? Woah. Not good.
Bradley
as a complement to my justice series it seems only fitting to have judicial stories told from the perspective of those who have had to sit in the "hot seat" and face the watchtower tribunal of the three stooges ... many, maybe most, elders have never had to face a judicial committee.
were this to have been the case, maybe we would not have the horror stories, but rather more tempered justice among jws.. .
before i was an elder, i too faced the trinity of elders ... and sat in the infamous "hot seat" ... for what?
Awesome post Jim! I was sitting at the edge of my seat wondering what you had done. Damn -- nothing juicy like murder or celebrating a birthday
I'll be glad to give my experience of sitting in the "hot seat" later....
Bradley
if the governing body arrangement had never been implemented could ray franz have become the president of the watchtower after his uncle or henschel died?.
i believe in coc ray franz said that if knorr had been president the events of 1980 would probably not have turned out as they did.
so do you think it is possible that by now ray franz would have been the president of the watchtower if the gb arrangement had not taken place?.
IW,
Oh, I see your point. I also wonder what the Society would have been like if someone had killed Judge Rutherford before he came to power or what would have happened if the "Miracle Wheat" CT Russell sold actually was miraculous or....or...or...
Hehehe, I'm being a smarmy bastard again. It's so much fun teasin' ya IW.
B
if the governing body arrangement had never been implemented could ray franz have become the president of the watchtower after his uncle or henschel died?.
i believe in coc ray franz said that if knorr had been president the events of 1980 would probably not have turned out as they did.
so do you think it is possible that by now ray franz would have been the president of the watchtower if the gb arrangement had not taken place?.
Brummie,
Yes, as far as I remember he didnt leave without a fight, he appealed against the Societies decision several times. He wanted to be a JW and keep his position. It was the way they handled/mishandled his case that finally helped him to see it for what it was. If at any time they had acknowledged his rightness and their wrongness (before all the heavy stuff went down) he would have continued in the role set out for him and possibly that would have led to his appointment as President and a reformation unlike they have ever had.
I think you might be confusing two different instances. Remember, Ray did not get DFd when he was deleted as a GB member. Actually, he resigned and didn't put up much of a fight. He didn't "appeal" anything related to his time at Bethel.
Months later when he was in a judicial matter for having a meal with a DFd person he did appeal the decision. Even then he stopped the appeal and just let the Society DF him. If they wouldn't have done so I still doubt that he would have ever become President for he was already in an infamous position and wasn't a GB member at the time anyway.
Remember too that people appeal judicial decisions for various reasons. Ray may simply have not wanted to be DFd -- it does complicate things a bit as so many here know.
Bradley
i don't know why i woke up this morning with this question on my mind.
why would god make the angels first, which are superior to humans, then go and make something inferior, like humans second.
i would figure that the angels would be like 1.0 then the humans would be revision 2.0 or something like that.
Ravyn,
Well, I see you've done a lot of fantasizing on the subject. Woah.
B
unfortunately i am seeing no visual decrease in the meeting attendance at kingdom halls, assemblies, etc.
i am hearing stories of packed district assemblies, and am seeing bigger attendance at the kingdom hall, not less as i might expect due to all the scandals and exposing of false prophecies etc.
it's very depressing.
Give it a few months, the removal of our George Bush and a calming in the hot bed of the middle east - everything will go back to normal.
Hell, I'd go back to meetings if it would get rid of George Bush!
Bradley
unfortunately i am seeing no visual decrease in the meeting attendance at kingdom halls, assemblies, etc.
i am hearing stories of packed district assemblies, and am seeing bigger attendance at the kingdom hall, not less as i might expect due to all the scandals and exposing of false prophecies etc.
it's very depressing.
Oh, I'll say a few more things...
Three years ago one of the Spanish congo's that met in my hall was deleted. That's right -- deleted! They just merged with the other Spanish congo. Everyone was stumped. What was up with that? Still don't know.
In Illinois Circuit 13 (where I was from) the Logan Square congregation (and English one) was deleted about a year ago and they simply merged with the Northwest congregation. Logan Square congo had been around FOREVER...and now they are no more.
Also, keep in mind that the DC's in the Chicagoland area were not held at their normal location (Hawthorne Race Course) but at Northern Illinois University. They scaled back on the number of DC's and just had bigger ones. All the same, don't be fooled by numbers. The quality is way down -- even from when I was a teenager just ten years ago, I notice a difference.
Bradley
unfortunately i am seeing no visual decrease in the meeting attendance at kingdom halls, assemblies, etc.
i am hearing stories of packed district assemblies, and am seeing bigger attendance at the kingdom hall, not less as i might expect due to all the scandals and exposing of false prophecies etc.
it's very depressing.
Integ,
The Witnesses "growth" doesn't surprise me at all.
The Mormon Church is growing by leaps and bounds -- why? We've seen a dramatic rise in the number of pseudoscientific beliefs like astrology and UFOs in the last 20 years -- why? One of the hottest series of books at any bookstore are the apocalyptic "Christian fiction" works by Tim LaHaye called "Left Behind" -- why? Because, to be blunt, people are all too eager to believe silly things.
If you want a really good book to read that will help explain the mass delusions like the JW phenomenon, take a look at Eric Hoffer's The True Believer. You will find that when a group faces persecution, dissappointment or scandel often they just get stronger and grow tighter.
Oh....think of the Catholic Church and all the *$&% they have had in their Church history. Yet, people still believe in them! Crazy, stupid and ridiculous.
Bradley
if the governing body arrangement had never been implemented could ray franz have become the president of the watchtower after his uncle or henschel died?.
i believe in coc ray franz said that if knorr had been president the events of 1980 would probably not have turned out as they did.
so do you think it is possible that by now ray franz would have been the president of the watchtower if the gb arrangement had not taken place?.
IW,
I still disagree. Ray was at the end of his rope the last couple of years on the body -- he even thought about leaving Bethel before any of the heavy stuff went down. I just don't think he would have taken on the Presidency, although there is no way to prove it.
Brummie,
I dont doubt for one minute that he would have accepted that role, he spent months trying to get back in
What? Huh? Would you care expounding on this last thought?
Bradley
