logansrun

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Posts by logansrun

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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

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  logansrun

  You know, I often heard it said that faith is a "personal journey" and is really, in essence, "private." Well, isn't that rather true of everything in life? Falling in love is a "personal journey" as well -- even though it is with another person your feelings are completely yours.

  Sometimes people use this "private journey" argument as if one may just as well believe whatever-the-hell they like and that's noble and good and just peachy. Well, I have no real beef with that as long as they don't hurt anyone else (which, I might add, is often rare). Nonetheless, shouldn't something as important as the very nature of existence and your eternal future be more than just the wild personal dreamings that go on in your brain? Shouldn't it be a dialogue?

  Important things are better off scrutinized more, not less.

  Bradley
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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

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  logansrun

  Little Toe,

  My, you're really putting a lot of words in my mouth in this thread. First you insinuate that I believed Occam's Razor was "infallible" and now you insinuate that I believe Sheila's believing makes her a "bad person"! Where oh where did I say any of this?

  That's all right. I forgive you.

  Bradley
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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

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  logansrun

  And, does anyone actually believe that atheists/agnostics really want to not believe? I can understand that some may say they do not want to believe in the Judeo-Christian-Muslim God because of the rather harsh moral code they would have to then adhere to. But, one could always believe in the now-popular "Sensitive New Age God" that requires little more than faith (gullibility + desire?).

  I personally just haven't seen any evidence, or anything even approaching evidence. I've tried. I've even prayed. I've rented books and cassettes promoting the "scientific" evidence supporting the efficacy of prayer. I was greatly dissappointed at both my personal experience with prayer (nothing happened) as well as the studies conducted (mostly by physician Larry Dossey -- his research was long on speculation, incredibly short on findings).

  Don't get me wrong. I'm not a militant unbeliever. I see much advantage in some of the philosophies of the great religions -- Christianity and Buddhism in particular. It doesn't "offend" me to see a believer (as it used to, I admit). Nonetheless, I just strongly suspect that faith is nothing more than wish-fulfillment. Oh well.

  Bradley
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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

  1. 
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  logansrun

  Little Toe,

  I never said Occam's Razor was infallible. Nonetheless, in my experience the vast majority of people do not apply it at all. Most people, I dare say, are completely unfamiliar with the concept!

  To make the leap from seeing a baby behave in a similar fashion to one's mother (a very subjective report of experience I might add) to believing -- no, knowing! -- there is a God seems incredibly dubious and is blatently illogical. That's okay, I guess. Believe if you want. But don't offer that example as anything more than a very wild speculation.

  Humans are constructivist animals when it comes to their mental processes. We are pattern-building creatures by nature. To top it off we also have a tendency to believe what we want to believe -- and pattern our "knowings" according to our desires more than our elemental experiences -- experiences which are interpreted to fit our desires, of course. Unfortunately, this often gets us into trouble.

  Bradley
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  83

  To those that believe in a god; Please help me believe

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey gang,.

  this isn't a debate-for-debate's sake thread.

  i enter with an informed but open mind.

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  logansrun

  Occam's Razor. Apply.

  ~Bradley
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  5

  DEMONS IN OUR MIDST......Facing the Tyrant Inside and Out

  by Sunnygal41 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  found this great article while researching on the 'net........thought i'd share it.........haven't read all of it yet, copied it out and will read at leisure............i'm interested in the concept of "demonic forces" on a psychological level rather than what we as jw's were taught from the bible.

  demons in our midst: facing the tyrant inside and out.

  by suzanne duarte.

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  logansrun

  Well, I haven't read the entire article, only bits. I'm skeptical of the efficaciousness of literally personifying psychological states within the human psyche, ie calling it a "demon." I think such language only makes the matter overly mysterious and we disempower ourselves from combating really bad things about us and others by using such "archetypal" language.

  I'm sorry sunnygal, but I'm reverting back to being very critical of "depth" psychology. By all means, there is some good in it. But I think better answers lie in more "mainstream" science/psychology. There just isn't much empirical evidence for much of the "new-agey" stuff. And...remember the human proclivity to fool one's self!

  I definitely agree with some of the sentiments in the last couple paragraphs of the article. I'm all in favor of picking a counter-cultural niche and trying to change the system -- with or without Carl Jung.

  Bradley
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  11

  Faiths Ask of Quake: 'Why Did You Do This, God?'

  by homme perdu in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  by peter graff

  london (reuters) -

  it is one of the oldest, most profound questions, posed by some of the most learned minds of every faith throughout the course of human history.

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  logansrun

  It's almost extraordinary to think that humans still believe in such nonsense as a personal God in light of such disasters. I mean that as no disrespect for anyone on this forum, but really....it's time to just look reality in the eye and accept it.

  B.
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  37

  Is the Universe and Life both the same thing? (out-of-the-box)

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is the universe and life both the same thing?

  i mean is there really duality in life and universe??

  a crude examlpe of what i mean is like take your body it is made up all kinds of specialized cells and even aminals like bacteria and virus not to mention molecules etc.. yet you veiw it all as "you" what if the whole universe is like that,,and we only think we are seperate.

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  logansrun

  Are you all familiar with what Ken Wilber calls the "pre/trans fallacy"?

  Some people call "transpersonal" or "transcendent" when, in fact, what they are experiencing is really "pre-personal" or "pre-egoic." People yelling at trees, praying for plants to grow or dabbling in astrology are, imho, "pre-egoic" -- more primitive not more spiritual (whatever that word might mean).

  Personally I think people do themselves immense damage when they dabble in "transpersonal" pscyhology or other New Age stuff. What they really would benefit from is a more down-to-earth form of therapy and life management. Too much for what passes as "spritual" is just childish escapism from the real world where we must behave pragmatically and interactionally.

  And....beware of totalistic answers to your problems. One of the real dangers is that people go into New Age philosophies (which may or may not include transpersonal psychology) looking for quick and easy answers, when real psychology fulfillment and change is hard work and may even seem boring at times.

  So, all in all, I don't really recommend the "transpersonal" approach.

  B.
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  99

  Letter From President George W. Bush

  by prophecor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ok so maybe i'm being played but believe it or not, i just got a letter from the president, that's right, the president of the united states of america!!!

  he was thanking many of his constituents for supporting him in his campaign.

  and get this, unlike the the problems that are resulting from donald rumsfeld's not taking the time to sign the letters, notifying their loved ones of the soldiers deaths, this appears to be written out in his own personal handwriting.

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  logansrun

  The President is deranged.
• 
  37

  Is the Universe and Life both the same thing? (out-of-the-box)

  by frankiespeakin in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is the universe and life both the same thing?

  i mean is there really duality in life and universe??

  a crude examlpe of what i mean is like take your body it is made up all kinds of specialized cells and even aminals like bacteria and virus not to mention molecules etc.. yet you veiw it all as "you" what if the whole universe is like that,,and we only think we are seperate.

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  logansrun

  What practical difference does this make in your life, though?