Posts by logansrun

27

Something I was never told about JW's.....

by Algun Otro in

jw
friends

.... those meetings are soooooooo boring.

and don't get me started on the 3 days of hell i just spent at the district convention.

(actually, if there isn't really a "hell", then it was 3 days of "non-existence") ok, ok, i get it.... as a witness, i should "give god glory", and make sure everything i do is being done in the glory of god.... but i don't need 3 days to get that point across.

logansrun

I also don't understand apostates.... why not just stop going to meetings and hanging out with JW's? Why do people feel the need to leave in some spiritual "blaze of glory"? I mean, just stop going.... and you'll just be hassled by occasional visits and phone calls

That's exactly what I did. Of course, this simply will not work for some. Many have families, "friends" and business contacts that are shattered because they want to leave. Many are "pushed" into formally disassociating themselves. And, some have been hurt either emotionally or intellectually so that they feel the need to "vent" about the Society or go out in a "blaze of glory." That may or may not be good, depending on the person and situation.

Well, my advice: don't get baptised. Stick around and you'll see more and more why I say this.

Bradley

19

All right -- What does God need 144,000 "rulers" for, anyway?

by logansrun in

one of the great philosophical conumdrums amongst the vast number of philosophical conumdrums of the watchtower society is this: why would almighty god (or jesus christ) need once earthly, now spiritual "co-rulers" for anyway?

god is not lacking in anything (supposedly).

now, anything means anything, right?

logansrun

traci,

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't these 144,000 supposed to be literal Jews? It is hard to understand why a God of love who is so BIG would categorize any certain group of imperfect people and then later on down the road offer it to the Gentiles as well.

According to the WTBTS, the 144,000 are both Jews and Gentiles who are hand-picked by God Himself to serve with his Son as co-rulers (something He could have done himself, but for no good reason decides to let them have a shot at it). True, in the book of Revelation 12 tribes of Israel are listed with 12,000 people each "sealed" to form 144,000. But, the Society states that their being of these tribes is figurative. Yet they say the total number itself is literal. Go figure.

But, you do raise an interesting point, one that is related to the topic I started. Supposedly God was going to allow the entire Jewish nation to become these king/priests. Obviously, there would be many more Jews around than just 144,000. So, would he just have chosen the "best of the best?" Beats me.

Whenever the JWs or any other religious group start to literalize the Bible and make it fit into a tightly woven logical paradigm they are doomed to failure. An entirely consistent theology is impossible, due to the inconsistency of the source itself -- the Bible.

Bradley

19

All right -- What does God need 144,000 "rulers" for, anyway?

by logansrun in

one of the great philosophical conumdrums amongst the vast number of philosophical conumdrums of the watchtower society is this: why would almighty god (or jesus christ) need once earthly, now spiritual "co-rulers" for anyway?

god is not lacking in anything (supposedly).

now, anything means anything, right?

logansrun

One of the great philosophical conumdrums amongst the vast number of philosophical conumdrums of the Watchtower Society is this: why would Almighty God (or Jesus Christ) need once earthly, now spiritual "co-rulers" for anyway?

Think about it. God is not lacking in anything (supposedly). Now, anything means anything, right? Well, evidently the WT Society doesn't seem to think so! From my own resevoir of WT indoctrination I can remember the party answer: God has selected 144,000 faithful men and women to rule with his Son for 1,000 years. And they're going to make such great rulers! Why, they were once human beings so they know all the weaknesses that go along with the human condition. They will be able to sympathize with us (that is the exact word they have used) and guide us along in the new world. And there it is!

But, we may ask: shouldn't God be able to already do that? Certainly, He who can read our minds and hearts, created us and can see into the future at will should be able to sympathize with us and understand what it is like to be human (need I remind you we are created in His image?) What need then for a bunch of humans transformed into supernatural beings to do so? God can already do that -- and He should be damn better at it or else He wouldn't be God!

Of course, the same question could be asked why God would have his Son rule over man. For the trinitarian this presents no problems since the Son is already the same as God.

So, from a purely logical point of view, the raising of 144,000 men and women to be kings and priests would seem to be utterly superflous. IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.

Bradley

10

Waverers Almost Gone When They Arrive Here?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

of late, we have seen several threads started here and elsewhere that question the responsibility of ex's towards wavering jw's.

much of the material in these threads has been to do with whether our words or behaviour on these sites should be moderated so as not to "stumble" wavering witnesses.

some folk are of the opinion that we have no responsibilty whatsoever to waverers, others say we have a degree of responsibilty, yet others opine that we have a very great degree of responsibility.

logansrun

Let me clarify my post a little:

I'm not saying that anyone should censor themselves here. I view this forum as a place for ex-JWs to chat and debate, not really for the doubting JW to get all the answers to their questions. Everyone is different, though, and I chose to do my analysis of the Society elsewhere. Cest la vie.

Bradley

10

Waverers Almost Gone When They Arrive Here?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

of late, we have seen several threads started here and elsewhere that question the responsibility of ex's towards wavering jw's.

much of the material in these threads has been to do with whether our words or behaviour on these sites should be moderated so as not to "stumble" wavering witnesses.

some folk are of the opinion that we have no responsibilty whatsoever to waverers, others say we have a degree of responsibilty, yet others opine that we have a very great degree of responsibility.

logansrun

When I first started researching the Society about two and a half years ago I ran across this site. I must admit it: it frightened me.

But, I'm a pretty conservative person. I still held the Society with some regard so I didn't care for the sarcasm that sometimes bordered on "potty humor." By the way, I think it's hilarious now, but at the time it turned me off.

Also, there still are many threads that are started that are completely inconsequential to whether the JWs are correct or not. That got to me and still makes me cringe. When I see threads about how mean the elders are or how some MS ran off with your mate, well that just does NOT logically mean that the Society is at fault for those individual actions, let alone that they are incorrect in their teaching. Give me some solid, irrefutable FACTS about the JW belief system and then my ears perk up.

I didn't actually participate on ex-JW forums till after I was already out of the org. I will be honest, when I was collecting information about the organization I did it through research in books, journels and non-forum websites.

So there you go.

Bradley

42

Nicknames

by Aztec in

jw
friends

sorry if this has been brought up before (and i'm sure it has) but what are your nicknames?

what people nickname you can be very telling about your personality and it's funny that they sometimes become more a part of you than your given name.. i have a long list of them..lol!.

when i was a kid: carrie canary (cause i walked around singing all the time).

logansrun

Some people simply call me Grand Master Totalitarian Overlord.

B

32

If God doesn't exist, what's your future?

by JH in

jw
friends

many here don't believe in god anymore so can't believe in any resurrection.

so what do you expect once you die?.

and if you believe that there is nothing after this life, are you working overtime in this life to get the most out of it because there is nothing after...

logansrun

JH, You wrote: Remember the devil has only a short time to live and he knows it.(rev 12:12) What does he do? He works overtime in his fury. I guess it would be the same for a non believer...who doesn't want to miss one little pleasure of life, because once he's dead it's over. The believer will be more balanced I think keeping in mind that after this life there is an eternal one. So, let me ask...What are YOU doing "differently" since you evidently believe in the (Christian) afterlife? Also, are you honestly comparing a non-believer in the afterlife to SATAN? I don't understand the connection, in all honesty. Can you give an EXAMPLE of how a "believer will be more balanced...keeping in mind after this life there is an eternal one"? I am curious to your responses. Bradley

32

If God doesn't exist, what's your future?

by JH in

jw
friends

many here don't believe in god anymore so can't believe in any resurrection.

so what do you expect once you die?.

and if you believe that there is nothing after this life, are you working overtime in this life to get the most out of it because there is nothing after...

logansrun

I'm going to approach this question from a different angle:

Doesn't everybody, whether they believe in an afterlife/God or not, want to get as much out of this life as is possible? Unless you are part of a fundamentalist religious cult like the JWs and are told not to have a self-fullfilling life, I think so.

Getting as "much out of life" does not mean being a total hedonist, because being such actually will take away from your natural life. So, the non-believer logically should conduct their life in much the same way as a believer, albeit minus the religious mumbo-jumbo.

Whether one believes in a life after death or not, what bearing does that really have to do on your plans and goals for this life?

So, in a way, I think the question you raise is meaningless.

Bradley

28

Notes from the Convention

by Gadget in

jw
friends

i was at the convention today, and noticed a number of interesting points in the program.. 1cor 10:31; "therefore, whatever you are eating and drinking or doing anything else, do all things to gods glory.

" they said that everything that we do is up to our conscience, but how would what we are doing reflect on jehovah.

at the same time they said jehovah is not a dictator.... "pay more than the usual attention.

logansrun

Okay, here are the only things I miss from the District Convention:

Sun

Girls

Eating out afterward

Looking my best

That's it, folks. I honestly cannot think of anything else that I could possibly miss from those torturous three days. I guess I can get all of the above things just by going to a baseball game, though.

Bradley

33

Just how "awful" have the JWs been today......

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

have they been, (a) not awful, (b) sort of awful, (c) most of the time awful, or (d) always awful as ever.

q2... has that thought, (a) had no difference in your life, (b) sort of had some bearing, (c) consumed most of my day, (d) i'm frothing at the mouth dribbling all over this forum.

q3... am i, (a) live and let live, respect that which i might have left, (b) well its certainly not for me, (c) i may picket the summer convention, (d) i once read ray franz, and he signed my book.

logansrun

HAHA! Nice one, Brummie

Bradley