well, today i began to think there really was no point in trying to argue a point in a reasonable reasoning way with a jw, after all, there's non so blind as those who will not see.. i saw my, mother, again and we had a humungous scrap on the wtbts.
she wanted to know if i expected her to return to the rcatholic church as that's the religion she originated in.
she told me how she had been badly beaten by the nuns and that on one occasion when she had missed class and gone to the cinema instead she had received such a severe clobbering that she could barely sit down for a week.
Hi Gill, you know JWs do say the strangest things. Yes..in the hebrews texts Jehovah God did say you'll all be my witnesses. As we know God never contradicts Himself, right?
Yet Jesus made the statement..."but you will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and the most distant part of the earth."(ACTS `1:8)((nwths)) It only makes sense if one knows that Jehovah is the Christ...
from the wts website:.
bout two years after the assassination of israeli prime minister yitzhak rabin in 1995, a journalist claimed that with the assistance of computer technology, he had discovered a prediction of that event hidden in the original hebrew bible text.
the journalist, michael drosnin, wrote that he had tried to warn the prime minister over a year before the assassination but to no avail.. other books and articles have now been published claiming that this hidden code provides absolute proof of god's inspiration of the bible.
A Code? There has been many writings on the issue. But a code? I don't think so. What it is, is how ancient hebrew is written.
Can anyone recall if you read a scripture and understand it's meaning, yet come back to it after a period of time and discover there's more then what you thought?
I have acopy of, "The Interlinear Bible of Hebrew-Greek-English." The writings in Hebrew in text aren't words but ideograms..Those ideograms are translated into words..then so forth..But the ideograms have great meaning...So I used Genesis....read the ideograms, yet stopped midstream and read horizontally. I stumbled unto a new or different meaning. And to translate that and was shocked.
I believe we might be all mentioned, everyone that has walked the earth, could be mentioned.
Earlier in this section I read it named P.M. and who was assassinated.
Only God Himself could write out these ideograms. If you can recall Jesus telling us about the ,"End Times," expressing that, that time man will have great knowledge. As for codes, some refer, from bible scripture..only a computer with great speed could translate this code at such speed to analize these ancient writings as a code.
So with this great knowledge which Daniel, also, mentioned..God told Daniel to hide these things until the end times come near...Daniel write these things thousands of years ago. So is this the time man would be able to translate and understand these prophecies? Christ told us to be ready according to prophecy.
Many of these prophecies are unfolding now. Over the last 100 years this world has seen things no man in history has ever seen. Example .......
"And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."(MATT 24:6) World War I was the first time in history that the entire world was involved...I believe these are the beginning of the prelude of the end times...
PEACE
"to those who through the righteousness of our god and savior jesus christ.
" 11 peter 1:1 emphatic diaglott.
"the glorious appearing of our great god and savior, jesus christ," titus 2:13 emphatic diaglott .
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/96797/1.ashx
Check it out...
defd has said he will leave and it caused me reflect on how he was treated.
are we happy with the way we responded when he tried to defend his faith?
this and comments about my own attitude have caused me to review my motive for the posts i make.. when i first started posting here i was thoughtful and sincere as were most of the posters back then.
Why do it? " In humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will."(II TIM 2:25,26)
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." (EPH 5:11)
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and and always be ready to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: (1 Peter 3:15)
That's my reasons since leaving the Watchtower.
It's not my my truth nor my light. It's God's. Scripture said it, I believe it...therefore it is. I didn't say it..God said it.
"to those who through the righteousness of our god and savior jesus christ.
" 11 peter 1:1 emphatic diaglott.
"the glorious appearing of our great god and savior, jesus christ," titus 2:13 emphatic diaglott .
1. "To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ." 11 Peter 1:1 Emphatic Diaglott
jehovah's witnesses and the trinity.
author: walter r. martin.
jehovah's witnesses and the trinity.
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND THE TRINITY
Author: Walter R. Martin
JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND THE TRINITY
The doctrine of the Holy Trinity has been consistently misunderstood, probably more than any other teaching of the Bible. Frequently investigation into the doctrine of the Trinity has been dismissed from serious discussion or study by invoking the time-worn assertions - "It's a great mystery" or "This is incomprehensible" - thus discouraging many from investigating the scriptural basis of the doctrine.
Due principally to this attitude as well as certain complex aspects of the Trinity doctrine itself, there has been a revival of anti-Trinitarian heresies during the past one hundred and fifty years, and they have gone largely unanswered. Prominent among those groups rejecting the historic doctrine of the Trinity are Mormonism, Christian Science, Unity, Spiritism, Herbert W. Armstrong and his Radio Church of God and Jehovah's Witnesses - i.e., The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.
According the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Trinity is a Satanic dogma of apostate Christianity that prevents people from knowing the true God, Jehovah. The Watchtower puts it this way:
The doctrine in brief is that there are three gods in one: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost...the Holy Spirit is not a person and is therefore not one of the gods of the Trinity...the Trinity doctrine was not conceived by Jesus or the early Christians...the obvious conclusion therefore is that Satan is the originator of the Trinity doctrine. 1
Since the Watchtower denies that the Trinity doctrine is Biblical; and since they complicate the issue by defining it incorrectly - the task of true Christians is two fold: First, a definition in accord with historic Christianity must be given. Secondly, it must be shown that the doctrine of the Trinity is both Biblical and essential to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
THE HOLY TRINITY
Definition: Within the unity of the One God there are three Persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; and these three share the same Nature and attributes. In effect, the three Persons ARE the one God.
From this concise statement, similarly set forth in many theological texts,2 it is clear that the Christian Church does not believe that "there are three gods in One." Quite to the contrary, we affirm that there is but one God, as Scripture repeatedly asserts (Deut. 6:4, Isa. 43:10, 1 Tim 2:5).
Having defined the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, it becomes necessary, secondly, to demonstrate inductively from the Bible that it is true.
To accomplish this, we begin with one basic premise: If it can be shown from Scripture that there are three persons, all of whom are called Jehovah (God), then, since there is only one Jehovah (Isa. 44:6, 48:12), those three Persons are the one God. Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
Just how it is possible for three to be One and for that One to be three, will also be explained. But first, the evidence:
1. THE FATHER IS JEHOVAH
Jehovah's Witnesses are quick to agree with the Apostle Peter that the Father is called Jehovah. Moreover, Peter and many other Biblical writers identify Him as a "person" (2 Peter 1:17). It is therefore unnecessary to press this point, the Witnesses having already conceded it.
However, we would point out that the word "person" is, by definition, descriptive of "ego" or "I." Without "ego," which distinguishes man from the beast, personality as such would cease to exist. Any reputable lexicon of Greek dictionary will substantiate the fact that the Greek word "ego," is the basis for our English term, "I." Jehovah designates His Being as The Great I AM (Ex. 3:14): So the Deity is Personal and possesses Ego, the hallmark of Personality.
We see, then, that one of the three "Persons" - the Father - is designated "God."
2. THE SON IS JEHOVAH
A careful study of the first chapter of Revelation (vs. 11-18) will show that Jesus Christ, the Son of Man, identifies Himself as "the first and the last" and "the one who became dead" and who now lives for all eternity.
It is of no small significance that in verse 13 of the last chapter of Revelation, He confirms this title with great emphasis, identifying Himself in verse 16 as "I Jesus," and declaring that He is "the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." The context reveals that it is Jesus speaking (vs. 12), for He - not the Father - is coming "quickly" (Rev. 1:7; 1 Thess. 4:15,16).
It must never be forgotten that these titles ("the first and the last," "the Alpha and the Omega'" "the beginning and the end") belong only to Jehovah God (Isa. 44:6,8; Rev. 1:8, 21:6). But Jesus Christ claims them as His own, because He, the Son is also Jehovah!
We see, then, that there are either two firsts and two lasts (a hopeless contradiction of terms), or the Son is Jehovah, the one who was pierced for our sins (Zech. 12:10; Rev. 1:7,11,13) and who is truly "the fullness of Jehovah in flesh" (Col. 2:9).
The angel who showed John the wonder Revelation forbade the Apostle to worship him, for he was but a created being, a "fellow servant." Quite properly, he declared, "worship Jehovah," (Rev. 22:9). Yet Jesus Christ, whom Jehovah's Witnesses say is also a created being (i.e., Michael the Archangel), commended the worship of Himself as Jehovah (John 20:28,29). This would have been a blasphemous act of presumption on His part and a direct violation of His Father's commandments (Ex. 20:3; Deut. 6:17), unless He were in some mysterious sense on in Nature and Being with His Father. In such a case He would in truth be "equal with God" and entitled to receive worship as Jehovah(John 5:18,23).
Jehovah's Witnesses have always taught that Jesus Christ was no more than a perfect man, "certainly not the supreme God Almighty in the flesh."3 They state categorically that He was in no sense both God and man. "Some insist that Jesus while on earth was both God and man. This theory is wrong."4 Jehovah's Witnesses also maintain that our Lord was "the first and direct creation of Jehovah God," and that prior to His earthly life He was an angel
In contrast to this teaching, Scripture and the Christian Church declare the full Deity of Jesus Christ, and His equality with God the Father.
In the first verse of John's Gospel, Christ is revealed as the eternal Word of God who became flesh (verse 14) - the "image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4). Consider the emphasis "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God" John 1:1).
Note that John 1:1 states that the Word already was in the beginning - it does not say the Word "became" or "was created" by God, as Jehovah's Witnesses teach. The Witness incorrectly translate this text to read "the Word was a god,"6 but their translation is by both context and grammar an impossibility according to all recognized authorities on Greek. No recognized translation bears out their error.
Moreover, the Scriptures proclaim that Christ made "himself equal with God" (John 5:18), and that "in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Deity bodily" (Colossians 2:9). The Bible further states that Christ claimed to be the great I AM (Jehovah) of the Old Testament (cf. Exodus 3:13-16 with John 8:58), and the Jews understood Him so clearly during His ministry that they sought to stone Him to death for blasphemy (John 8:59; cf. 10:28-33).
Jehovah's Witnesses pervert these texts and many others in their determined effort to demote our Lord from His position of God and Creator (Colossians 1; Hebrews 1); and they compound their error by translating the Greek of the New Testament, in many places, contrary to all grammatical authorities. It is certainly true that during His earthly life our Lord voluntarily limited Himself as a man (Philippians 2:6-8), and thus He never strove to usurp the prerogatives of Deity; But one does not have to "rob" what is His by inheritance (Hebrews 1). He was true Deity - "the great God" (Titus 2:13).
We must not forget that Christ humbled Himself, even to the death of the cross, and therefore, as a man, could say, "My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). However, let us remember that Christ never said, "My Father is better than I." "Better" is a term of comparison between natures (Heb 1:4), while "greater," as in the context of John 14, is a term of comparison relative to positions.
The President of the United States, for instance, is greater in position than any of his fellow-Americans by virtue of his office, but he would be the first to insist that he is not better than other human beings. So Christ was admittedly inferior to His Father positionally while on earth as a man, but the Scriptures clearly and unmistakably state that he was at all times His Father's equal on the spiritual plane of Divine Being or Nature (Heb. 1:3; John 5:18). Note also that in 1 Corinthians 15:28 it is function that is dealt with - not Deity.
Jehovah's Witnesses always point to Christ's humanity in the Bible; they carefully omit mention of His claim to full Deity, and they thus "wrest...the...scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16). the second Person, the Son, is also called God, then, despite the efforts of the Watchtower to prove the contrary.
3. THE HOLY SPIRIT IS JEHOVAH
It is peculiar, to say the least, that Jehovah's Witnesses can agree with the Apostle Peter when he declared that the Father is Jehovah - and then contradict his affirmation that the Holy Spirit is likewise Jehovah, as recorded in Acts 5:3 and 4.
No Christian theologian has ever denied either the Person or Deity of the Holy Spirit, for the evidence to substantiate both is abundant in Scripture. For instance, a thorough study of the book of Acts, chapter thirteen, reveals that the Holy Spirit is a Person, because He possesses "ego." Luke records therin that the Holy Spirit as a Person has "ego" (13:2,4) and, furthermore, that He (not "it") prophesies to His servants and commissions them, as well (21:11). See also such verses as John 14:26, 15:26, Acts 8:29, 13:2, and Romans 5:5.
The Scriptures are clear that the Holy Spirit has a "will" (1 Cor. 12:11; Heb. 2:4), and since "will" denotes "ego" or personality, as opposed to the neuter (animals), obviously the Spirit is a person. We have also seen from Peter's words that when Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit, he lied to Jehovah (Acts 5:4). Both the thirteenth chapter of Acts and Isaiah 48 add to the proof that the Holy Spirit is God, since He answers the prayers of the Apostles (Acts 13:1-4) and is designated Deity by the prophet Isaiah (48:16). Even the Watchtower admits that God alone answers prayer.
The Bible, then, does indeed teach that the Spirit is a Person and that He is called God. It is therefore apparent that there are three Persons mentioned in Scripture and that they are all identified as God: Yet there is only one true God (Isa. 45:22).
"LORDS MANY AND GODS MANY"
There are two other important points that must be mentioned.
Jehovah's Witnesses claim that, because the Bible designates some beings and idols as "gods," it is proper for them to call Jesus "a god" and worship him as the angels did (Heb. 1:6). This is an important point and must be clarified.
Of course, it is true that God made Moses appear as a god in Pharoah's eyes (Exodus 7:1). Moreover, Satan, certain of the judges of Israel and pagan idols are described as "gods" in the Bible (John 14:30, Psalms 82:6, 1 Cor. 8:4, 10:19, 2 Cor. 4:4). Nevertheless, they are not deity by nature, as the Apostle Paul flatly states (Gal. 4:8). They are "gods" by angelic or human acclamation, and God addresses them in that context. Worshiping a thing can make it your god; but it is not God by nature - for by nature there is only one God (1 Cor. 8:4-6, 1 Tim. 2:5).
When this cardinal distinction is made in Scripture, the Watchtower's doctrine is refuted, and the problem of the usage of the term "gods" or "a god" disappears.
COMPOSITE UNITY AND THE TRIPLE POINT
The second important fact to be remembered is that of the meaning of the term "one."
"How is it possible," say the Jehovah's witnesses, "for Jehovah to be three and one both at the same time? It is illogical, unreasonable and confusing; and God is not the author of confusion!"
To answer this all-too-common objection, it should be kept in mind that the word "one" can denote composite as well as solitary unity. For instance, in Genesis (chapter 2), Adam and Eve are called one flesh; and Numbers (chapter 13) speaks of "one" when the context indicates that is was in reality a cluster of grapes hanging from one stem. Here are bona fide instances of composite unity.
The same Hebrew word, "echod" (one) is used in both cases, however, even as it is in Deuteronomy 6:4 where we are told that God is "One." The evident composite unity indicated here is confirmed in the New Testament. Our Lord spoke of composite unity where marriage is concerned (Mk. 10:8); so He, too, was aware of this important distinction. See also Joshua 9:2; Judges 20:1; 2 Chron. 30:12; Isaiah 65:25; Nehemiah 7:66 and Ezra 6:20 for further instances of composite unity.
Finally, let us illustrate how it is both logically and rationally possible for three to be one and one to be three simultaneously, since Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT believe this is possible.
It is a well-known fact of chemistry that plain water, when placed in a vacuum under 230 millimeters of gas pressure and at a temperature of 0 degrees Centigrade, solidifies into ice at the bottom of the container, remains liquid in the center and vaporizes at the top! At a given instant the same water is both solid, liquid and gas, yet all three are manifestations of the same basic substance or nature: H2O - hydrogen: two parts; oxygen: one.
If one of the simplest of all created substances can be three in manifested form and yet remain one in nature, then the Creator of that substance can surely be Father, Son and Holy Spirit - three Persons and one Nature - without any violation of logic or reason whatever if He so wills.
God is not triples (1+1+1) - He is triune (1x1x1), and He has revealed Himself fully in the Person of our Lord, Jesus Christ (Col. 2:9; John 14:9).
Jehovah's Witnesses are not confused by the doctrine of the Trinity they are confused by the Watchtower Society, from whose power only the Son of God can liberate. It is our prayer that, in His own time, this will come to pass - "for ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free...and if the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:32,36).
Once the foregoing data have been understood, the following texts from the Old and New Testament confirm the doctrine of the Trinity. A prayerful reading of these passages will help strenghten your faith in this great and truly divine revelation of the Nature of God. It will promote faith in Him "who is able to save to the uttermost all who come to Him by faith," since He alone is "the Way," (Heb. 7:25; John 14:6; Acts 16:31; 1 John 2:2; Romans 10:9-13).
1. Let God Be True, Watchtower Society, Edition 1946, pLet God Be True, p. 87 4. The Truth Shall Make You Free, Watchtower Society, p. 49, The Harp of God, J.Wp. 81, 82, 87, Reconciliation J.W. Rutherford, p. 115. 2. The Trinity, Baker's Dictionary of Theology, p 115. 3. . Rutherford, pp. 101, 128. 5. The Kingdom Is At Hand, pp. 46, 47-49. 6. Let God Be True, pp. 34, 35.
TRINITY TEXTS: (1) Old Testament Hints - Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8, 48:12, Zech. 12:9,10. (2) The Creation - Genesis 1:2, In 1:3. (3) The Incarnation - Lk. 1:35. (4) The Baptism of Christ - Matt. 3:17,17. (5) The Resurrection of Christ - Acts 2:26, 1 Thess. 1:10 (The Father), Jn 2:19-21, (The Son), Rom. 8:11, 1 Pet 3:18 (The Holy Spirit), Acts 17:31 (God). (6) The Great Commission - Matt. 28:19. (7) The Divine Benediction - 2 Cor. 13:14. See also John 14:16,26, 15:26.
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so what evidence is there that satan is running the wtb&ts instead of god?.
what are their proofs that god is running the show and what evidence is there that god is not running the show.. could be interesting to see what we can all come up with.
Hi Lady Lee, let's look at the issues here, ok?
Russell taught that he was the Faithful Slave...later Bethel said it was the 144,000. Russell said that the end is 1774...It didn't..Then Russell said 1914 would be the beginning of the end and armaggedon wasn't too far behind. Then when 1914 came and went Bethel said that Christ came to the Throne. Then the Watchtower, later, said that Beth Sariem, A huge mansion estate for all of the old prophets by 1925. Rutherford was the only one I know that actually lived there. Yet the estate was in the name of the old prophets.1925 came and went and finally sold for the embarrased due to the Watchtower Society. No..Moses, Elijah, David,ects never came by.
So the Watchtower has told us that Jehovah God is the Editor..which means Jehovah needs to check all things over, just before printing, to see the truth of the writing. So according to me, my opinion, the Watchtower's Editor just have to be having deep seated problems with himself....or the Real Jehovah is never around.
I think, my opinion again, it's all run by Satan and the False Prophet who a part of the antichrist.
BLESSING...........
over the period of time i've watched and read plenty on the watchtower society and their leaders, yet not too much on johannes greber.....no he wasn't the founder of gerber foods.....lol... so i did a little more research on him and he was a former catholic priest....here's what i found out......... who was johannes greber?
johannes greber was an ex-catholic priest who took it upon himself to translate his own version of the new testament.
to aid him in this endeavor, he contacted the "spiritworld" to reveal the proper remderings of the scriptures he sought.
Any time Ticker
over the period of time i've watched and read plenty on the watchtower society and their leaders, yet not too much on johannes greber.....no he wasn't the founder of gerber foods.....lol... so i did a little more research on him and he was a former catholic priest....here's what i found out......... who was johannes greber?
johannes greber was an ex-catholic priest who took it upon himself to translate his own version of the new testament.
to aid him in this endeavor, he contacted the "spiritworld" to reveal the proper remderings of the scriptures he sought.
Over the period of time I've watched and read plenty on the Watchtower Society and their leaders, yet not too much on Johannes Greber.....No he wasn't the founder of Gerber Foods.....lol..
So I did a little more research on him and he was a former Catholic Priest....Here's what I found out........
WHO WAS JOHANNES GREBER?
Johannes Greber was an ex-Catholic priest who took it upon himself to translate his own version of the New Testament. To aid him in this endeavor, he contacted the "spiritworld" to reveal the proper remderings of the Scriptures he sought.
The Watchtower Society, desperately in need of scholastic references to support their own specific controversial translations, made full use of Greber's work even though they were aware of his involvement with spiritism. The Society discloses the true identity of Johannes Greber for the first time in a 1956 Watchtower article.
1. From the Forward to Greber's New Testament - 1937 edition
"The New Testament, as interpreted by the scholarly Pastor Johannes Greber,...is an absolutely independent translation, without restriction to the dogma of any Church.
This task was not simple. Many contradictions between what appears in the ancient scrolls and the New Testament, as we have grown to know it, arose and were the subject of his constant prayers for guidance - prayers that were answered and the discrepancies clarified to him by God's Spirit World.
At times he was given the correct answers in large illuminated letters and words passing before his eyes. Other times he was given the correct answers during prayer meetings. His wife, a medium of God's Spiritworld, was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God's Messengers to Pastor Greber."
2. WT 2-15-56 p.110
Greber was revealed as a spiritist who translated the New Testament with the help from God's spirits. This Watchtower page also discloses that the Society had access to the 1937 edition of Greber's translation:
"Says Johannes Greber in the introduction of The New Testament, copyrighted in 1937: "I myself was a Catholic priest, and until I was forty eight years old had never as much as believed in the possibility of communicating with the world of God's spirits.
Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes, helped him in his translation."
The Watchtower article mentions another publication by Greber, "Communication With the Spirit World of God", published 5 years before his New Testament translation.
3. The Word - Who is He According to John?, 1962, p. 5
This booklet, published by the Watchtower Society, sought any support possible to reinforce their own translation of John 1:1. Greber's New Testament was not overlooked. Greber's name and his 1937 New Testament are mentioned in a footnote on this page:
"...the reading by a former Roman Catholic priest: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god."
So there is no mistake about it: both the 1956 Watchtower article and the 1962 "Word" booklet are using the same edition of Greber's New Testament.
4. WT 9-15-62 p.554
Greber's rendering of John 1:1 is again quoted and his name along with his 1937 New Testament are cited in the footnote.
5. Make Sure of All Things, 1965 p.489
Greber's name is used in the "Trinity" section of this Society's book as a "scholarly" support for the 'a god' translation of John 1:1. This same book warns against practicing spiritism!
6. Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971 p. 1134
In the Society's first encyclopedia, under the entry 'MEMORIAL TOMBS' the Society refers to Greber's peculiar New Testament translation of Matthew 27: 52,53 in order to lend support to their own rendering of this verse.
Greber's translation of Matthew 27: 52,53:
"Tombs were laid open, and many bodies of those buried there were tossed upright. In this posture they projected from the graves and were seen by many who passed by the place on their way back to the city."
7. Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971 p. 1669
Under the entry 'WORD, THE' the encyclopedia cites Greber as a supporter for the "a god" rendering in John 1:1.
8. WT 10-15-75 p.640
The Watchtower Society denies that an actual resurrection occurred in Matthew 27:52,53. Therefore, they twist the wording in this verse to read:
"And the memorial tombs were opened and many bodies of the holy ones that had fallen asleep were raised up, (and persons, coming out from among the memorial tombs after his being raised up, entered into the holy city,) and they became visible to many people."
Thus, in this Watchtower issue, they appeal to the translation of Johannes Greber who believed as they did.
9. WT 4-15-76 p. 231
Greber is again used to support the fraudulent translation of Matthew 27:51-53.
10. Watchtower Letter 12-20-80
The Society writes the Greber Foundation acknowledging receipt of both of Greber's books. The letter, typed on Watchtower stationery with the Society's letterhead reads:
December 20, 1980
JOHANNES GREBER MEMORIAL FOUNDATION
139 Hillside Ave.
Teaneck, NJ 07666
Gentlemen:
This is to acknowledge receipt of the two books you recently sent to us, The New Testament translated by Johannes Greber, and his book "Communication with the Spirit World of God."
We appreciate you sending these volumes on to us. For some years we have been aware of the translation by Johannes Greber and have on occasion even quoted it. Copies of the translation, though, have been hard to obtain. Since we have four libraries in our headquarters facilities consulted by the members of our staff, including the writers for our journals and books, we wonder about the possibility of obtaining a few additional copies of The New Testament.
Please direct any communication about the above request to the Writing Department, Desk EG.
Sincerely,
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
of New York, Inc.
11. Letter to the Watchtower, 9-21-81
This is one of over 20 letters to which the Governing Body, sent just 9 months later, denying knowledge of how to obtain the Greber New Testament. They gave a false address and source of a building torn down years before. So it was obvious that the Society was involved in a cover-up. They did not want their readers or members to know who Greber really was.
On the same Watchtower stationery is a sample of one of those letters:
September 21, 1981
Helen McAllister
508 West Eleventh Street
Claremont, California 91711
Dear Sister McAllister:
Your letter of August 20, 1981, has been received, and is now before us for answering.
You ask for information as to how you may obtain a copy of The New Testament, by Johannes Greber. The only address we have is that given in the translation itself, which was a 1937 edition. It lists the publishers as being, John Felsberg, Incorporated, 80 Fourth Avenue, New York, New York. We do not note an up-to-date listing in the New York Directory, so it may be necessary to have your bookstore send out a search inquiry regarding the translation.
We trust our comments prove helpful. We take this occasion to send herewith an expression of warm Christian love and best wishes.
Your brothers in Jehovah's service,
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
of New York, Inc.
12. WT 4-1-83 p. 31
In a response in the "Questions From Readers" section of this Watchtower issue, the Society made these statements as to why the Society had not made recent use of the New Testament translation by Johannes Greber:
"But as indicated in a foreword in the 1980 edition of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, the translator relied on "God's Spirit World" to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages...The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism."
According to the answer given by the Society, it said it did not realize Greber was a spiritist until they obtained the 1980 edition of his New Testament. In essence they are saying that the 1937 edition did not reveal this information about Greber.
What nonsense! Their tampering with the truth can be shown by comparing this answer with the 1956 Watchtower article that was mentioned above.
Since the Society had access to the 1937 edition of Greber's New Testament, they also knew that the introduction made the following statement:
"Whoever then seeks to know what is true and what is untrue in the Bible as we have it today, can find out only in the way in which all God-fearing people in the past have sought the truth, namely by communicating with God's spirit world." (p.15)
I have a great deal more, but this is only a little tib bit I htought I'd give out...THE sPIRIT wORLD? God Condemned those who practice in the spirit world...
PEACE
friday, august 05, 2005
author excommunicated by mormon church
book outlines how existing dna data for american indians does not support mormon beliefs that continent's earliest inhabitants were descendants of israelite patriarch lehi.
There is a video out,VCR, called, "DNA vs Book of Mormon." Several scientists, mormons, took a look at DNA vs. the Book of Mormon and discovered there was no link between the Native Americans, the indians, and mormonism.
The Mormons believed that the Native Americans where related with the lost tribes of Isreal. Many of the mormons left the LDS, bcause of the lies Joe Smith told about the indians, because they know that one can break down the DNA and show proof if you're part indian or from any race in the world.
There are many christian web sites that will sell anyone the video. Those who made the video is willing to offer the video free to any mormon who requests the video.
I've seen the video and have a copy of it. I brought it in Nauvoo Illinois..which is the town where Joe Smith bought the town. It is on the Mississippi River. At one time in history Nauvoo Illinois had more population then Chicago Illinois.
