again, thanks to wifibandit and pixel for their work behind the scenes.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwzviu3jfko.
This guy's an ipecac... "Do you ever reminisce about the good times you had with Jehovah's people? An encouraging congregation meeting? Thrilling convention? A delightful experience in the ministry? Or, simply a pleasant conversation with a fellow believer?... God, that's beautiful!" Ugh! I think I threw up in my mouth with that one...
I would be happy to trade the magazine (and sentiment) for just giving me my family back. That would be swell cause then, I wouldn't have to "reminisce".
if the gb finally gets caught in their devious shenanigans dont think they dont have a plan.. they are always way ahead of the game.
all the governing body has to do to escape repercussions from an angry mob of jws, .
is play the victim card.
LOL! If only... I think they aren't through using Satan, apostates, and the world as their whipping posts. But, it's fun to think they could always add the Bible in the mix. I don't put anything past them. And, I think they could actually get away with it...
Considering the large number of effective psychological defense mechanisms they have in place, even with such a concession, I believe many would still stay in. They would simply do a bit of eisegesis legerdemain and craft it as "We serve Jehovah, not a book..." or some other nonsense, supported by a string of scriptures. Perhaps they could even come up with new revelations, as the Mormons did. And, we all know that allegiance to the Organization has become paramount to everything else. The GB are masters at turning lemons into lemonade.
Personally, I think most JWs, like the rest of my family, are going to ride that bus right down the precipice. I truly believe that the GB could have a press conference tomorrow boldly announcing that "It was all a sham. We were making things up. Ha, ha, ha...thanks for the money...SUCKERS!, Hail Satan!", moon the audience, give the audience the finger, and walk out and you would STILL have JWs looking to find a way to stay on that bus.
I hope, at the very least, that their numbers will continue to stagnate, they become more irrelevant and marginalized, and maybe (in the undetermined future) go out with a whimper, not a bang. Which is a small comfort for people like us who have family in. But, it's good to dream.
after gradually waking up to ttatt im finding myself with this question:.
since it is so easy to be indoctrinated with jw beliefs, are there other areas in my life where i'm also under influance of other false beliefs?
from the culture i've grown up with, school etc?.
DavidG, it is my pleasure.
I think over time you will find yourself re-evaluating ALL sorts of beliefs you took for granted. We often encourage others to re-examine their understanding of science, history, critical thinking, etc. when they leave (or are leaving) the Organization. But we often don't talk about some of the other areas where the Organization has indoctrinated us with incorrect information and logic.
When I left, I had to re-examined my perceptions and beliefs about people/society and found that the Organization is replete with implicit (and explicit) racist, sexist (at times misogynistic), and homophobic undertones, to name a few. You will probably want to re-examine your beliefs and sensibilities about those (and many other) issues using resources and perspectives outside of the Organization.
This is not likely to happen overnight and it will be a lifelong process. It takes a lot of work and you may, at times, feel shame/guilt about how you were taught to view a particular group or gender. But, it is important to work on it. You want to become a person that can fit into modern society and, the ideas the Organization filled our head with are Bronze Age (at best).
#notsatire.
thanks to wifibandit and pixel for collaborating on this.
more to come.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxce4duetw8.
after gradually waking up to ttatt im finding myself with this question:.
since it is so easy to be indoctrinated with jw beliefs, are there other areas in my life where i'm also under influance of other false beliefs?
from the culture i've grown up with, school etc?.
Those questions you posed are the same I posed myself when I left many years ago. When I left, I asked myself "Since I believed so strongly that these teachings were true, and now I find they are not, what else am I wrong about?" The answer to that proved to be that I was wrong about MANY things. And, I am still finding things I was wrong about. But I now have better tools/skills and more freedom to learn more, think for myself, and correct ideas and beliefs. And, maybe the one "good" thing about having had the JW experience is that you will, hopefully, be more critical and skeptical in the future.
When you leave the Organization, you will probably realize two key things:
1. That many of the things they taught you were not correct and...
2. That we (JWs) were not given good tools/skills to think about how to determine what is correct - i.e. critical thinking, logic, and evidence. What we got from the Organization is "faith" couched in an air of pseudo-intellectualism. The version of "critical thinking, logic, and evidence" the Organization claims to use (and we were taught) is nothing of the sort.
I think many JWs leave understanding item 1, but many do not fully appreciate how badly they are lacking in item 2. You will need to continue to equip yourself with facts, but more importantly, you will need to equip yourself with the thinking tools/skills to understand how to evaluate facts.
Enjoy your voyage of discovery. Keep feeding your brain.
On a side note, there is a really good/fun book called "Being Wrong" by Kathryn Schulz which has an engaging explanation on how our minds perceive being right and wrong. She has a TED talk you might find interesting - http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong?language=en
so i am getting ready for bed yesterday night and i overhear my teenage son and wife talking about how the evidence of creation far outweighs the evidence of evolution.
i heard my son say that evolution has so many holes and how could something happen from nothing.
i wanted to open the door and ask them both how the creator happened from nothing just to see what they would say..
I don't think you will need luck because you are doing the most important thing - i.e. asking questions. That's always a good place to start. I was a JW and I believed that God created everything, evolution was incorrect, all science is suspect, bad things happen because Satan and sin, etc. When you are inside, all outside information is made suspect and unreliable. It wasn't until many decades later of studying topics and sources outside the WTBTS material that you start to realize that (a) the Society often presents their arguments incorrectly/deceptively then (b) proceeds to answer their own carefully crafted questions to make it fit the answer.
For example, the Society constantly proposes that "if evolution is not true, that proves...God." and will also throw in the Big Bang Theory into the mix at times. This is a logical fallacy and it confuses the topics. For one, evolution (change over time), is a fact. We then have The Theory of Evolution as the current and best scientific explanation of the evidence (e.g. fossils, genetics). The Theory of Evolution does not attempt to explain how life originated. That area of study is abiogenesis. Abiogenesis deals with if/how non-organic material could organize (over time and processes) into to complex organic life. Lots of great experiments in that area show promise. Lastly, we have the Big Bang Theory which is the current and best scientific explanation to how the universe began from a high-density state then expanded. Lots and lots of progress being made to get closer and closer to the first instant of the universe.
The reason for pointing this out is that the WTBTS confuses these (and other) topics to make arguments that fit a solution they want to fit - i.e. God did it. They make a further mistake to imply that disproving any/all of the previous (and other) scientific theories means - "God did it". This is not correct as the premise that "God did it" would require its own body of evidence irrespective of the validity of a particular scientific theory.
One thing I would recommend is do some research on some of the above topics - i.e. The Theory of Evolution, abiogenesis, and The Big Bang Theory using sources outside the WTBTS. Here is a good article on evolution you might enjoy - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/. There is a wealth of information out there that do not include God into the equation so you can learn the topic objectively. And, perhaps, you can invite your son on a learning adventure when you feel ready. Maybe you could couch it as "learning to counter the arguments we get at the door". And, "encouraging him to do his own research", as you stated, is an excellent idea.
As for "why is the world the way it is?", that is an important question. However, as an exercise, you might want to simplify the question by removing a supernatural/force to the equation to start and only add it in when it is necessary. Once you do that a lot of things begin to make sense. And, you may find over time that you don't need to add the supernatural into the equation.
For what is worth, "Good Luck".
august 2015 awake .
quote in title taken from article footnote.. anyone have information on who gene hwang and yan-der hsuuw in the article are?.
why do they repeatedly state that apes turned to humans when that's not what evolutionists teach at all?.
The more I study science, the more I am convinced of the WTBTS's lack of even the most basic intellectual integrity and colossal lack of science literacy.
What qualifies a theory as a scientific theory? According to the Encyclopedia of Scientific Principles, Laws, and Theories, a scientific theory, such as Albert Einstein’s theory of gravity, must
Be observable
Be reproducible by controlled experiments
Make accurate predictions
Is evolution a Scientific Theory? Yes. Further, I would be willing to bet that even their own source above (the Encyclopedia of Scientific Principles, Laws, and Theories) would cover it as such.
There is a very good article from Scientific American that can help answer the above points - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/
The WTBTS have done so much eisegesis on the Bible over the years that they seem to feel free to cut/paste other sources as well to suit their needs. Shameless.
is macroevolution a word made up by evolutionary scientists and darwinists, or did creationists come up with that word?.
because, from my understanding, there is no such thing as macroevolution.
an ape didn't give birth to a human, for instance.
One thing to note is that "Micro" and "Macro" evolution is one of those terms that Creationists (including JWs) have hijacked from their original correct scientific context to an incorrect use to make their ideas sound legitimate and "sciency". Kinda like Depak Chopra uses the word "quantum" to explain some fuzzy and unproven idea. Or the way some people use the word "Theory".
Its good to remember that evolution makes no distinction between the two. They both rely on the same established mechanisms of evolutionary change. The biggest difference between the two is probably time.
i don't believe for a second that the wts can be god's chosen organization, if he does have an earthly one, especially one with such a hypocritical past.
but the question begs; why are there people professing having the heavenly calling usually found in the wts?.
does anyone know or have heard of other denominations having the genuine heavenly calling?.
Good post... Here is one perspective...
My Mother started partaking about 33 years ago. My Mother is a very creative, intelligent, and emotional person. She puts her whole heart and mind into everything she does. And, most importantly, she needs to feel "special". I think being anointed is sometimes a "personality" type. If she was in a different religion she would probably speak in tongues, handle snakes, or some other thing. In addition, once she started partaking a number of other people started partaking for some time. Kind of like "anointed fever". It was absolutely bizarre to watch.
On a side note, at the time she started partaking, it was almost considered a sign of insanity (possibly apostasy) that someone so young could partake. We were treated pretty badly by others in the KH. Ironically, she is now older than almost all of the GB members that partake.
i had a thought today, would so many people sign the witness version of the billion year contract if instead of calling everything (even the religion) "the truth", they were more like science and called it "theories".
it's funny because "the truth" changes all the time, where as really the truth does not.
in science you say something is a theory it can change and become more accurate (new light), .
Definitely a good thread topic. I would offer this...
"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."
I would not want to dignify what the WTBS provides by calling it a "theory" (in the same par as scientific theories). I think, what they often propose is a "guess" (or maybe a "hypothesis" at best). From my perspective, they have yet to provide the evidence to graduate their "guesses" into "theories". If anything, what they have provided often negates their own hypothesis. Just a thought...
