I wouldn't put it past them. Yeah, they will. They can also put down some "placements" (e.g. WT publications, the Elder's book, the Branch Procedures book, etc.) in their time slips...
StrongHaiku
JoinedPosts by StrongHaiku
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Are the J.W's that are appearing before the R.C. counting the time for their F.S report?
by karter ini bet they are.
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Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead
by Viviane inrecently, several threads have had some debate about logic, evidence, critical thinking and skepticism.
i wanted to write a post discussing those things, hopefully to clarify what those things are, why they are important and how to use those tools.
first, logic, at its core, is simply a method for how to reason validly, how to draw conclusions based on a premise.
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StrongHaiku
Viviane - "If you haven't bothered to learn about evolution, biology, etc., then your opinion on the truth of evolution doesn't carry any weight."
I second Phizzy as well.
This is one of the best lines yet. Nicely done.
It is a good reminder to continue to keep up with our understanding of science, technology, society, politics, etc. We should either have a good understanding of the arguments or simply say "I don't know".
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Why the Bible is a poor moral compass
by Diogenesister inplease don't click the link if you feel details of abuse would upset you http://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/letter-to-the-director-of-public-prosecutions-from-steven-unthank-in-relation-to-discontinuing-the-criminal-trial-february-2012-pdf.pdf.
looking at some of the events that led up to the rc in australia i came across this letter, submitted to the d.p.p.
by steven upthank, in relation to the crown discontinuing prosecution of the governing body of jehovahs witnesses.
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StrongHaiku
CalebInFloroda, I have to say that I am totally confused and maybe you can help me.
Based on your comments it seems to me that you are saying that the Jews had a notion/idea/relationship with G-d (predating the OT) which, over time, was codified over time in the OT. And, that the OT reflects both cultural and religious ideas that cannot be well-understood let alone be used as a foundation for other religions because of the very specific and unique perspective (e.g. one needs to have the context of the Jewish religion and cultural history otherwise you end up with problems). If I got it wrong, my apologies.
However, I am still fuzzy on how ideas are reconciled. For example, how would you would address G-d's endorsement of mass genocide of men/women/children, slavery, stoning, and all sorts of things that we (as a society) and Jews would now find indefensible, immoral, etc.?
When you read those passages from the OT is your perspective "that was then, this is now"? Do you look at these acts as a reflection of the character of the G-d of the OT or is it strictly tied to the character of the people of the time?
I guess I am trying to better understand how you reconcile the G-d of the OT as it relates to some of the things you say. Thank you for your patience.
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Good news RE - Geoffrey Jackson and the RC
by iwasblind inhey guys.
this was just put up on the rc site.
rc will recommence on the 14th august.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/2015-08/public-hearing-into-the-jehovah%e2%80%99s-witnesses-to-rec.
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StrongHaiku
I was just thinking about all of the countless faithful JWs (some of us) who were tortured, raped, beaten, abused for not signing a loyalty card or not saluting flag, etc. I was just thinking about all of the JWs (some of our family) who died not taking a blood transfusions. I was just thinking about the endless numbers of JWs (so many of us) who made life-altering decisions to not take a job, leave family behind, not take higher education, volunteer countless hours door-to-door-to-door, and made substantial personal sacrifices, to stand up for the Jehovah and his Organization. I was thinking about many of us who never got to say "goodbye" to our loved ones. Many of us and others did it all without a second thought and were honored to do so...
Geoffrey Jackson had to be asked to take a minute of his busy schedule to set matters straight. His main excuse for not attending is "compassionate care" to his father who is ill.
I think I will reserve my compassion to the endless number of JWs who laid down on the road before him.
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A question the Chair (Mclellan) may want to ask G. Jackson
by Indian Larry inmr. jackson, we have heard testimony from mr spinks and mr. obrien that women will never have leadership positions in the congregation.
as i understand it mr. jackson, you interpret revelation 7 to mean that only 144,000 will go to heaven and that these 144,000 will rule the earth.
i also understand that your organization teaches that women are part of this "remnant" of 144,000. can you explain why jesus christ is willing to put women in leadership over the entire earth but you are not willing to permit them to have anything to do with helping victims of pedophiles in your congregation?
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StrongHaiku
Vidiot - A consequence of the RC (unfortunately for the WTS) is that the exposure of the policies' flaws cannot help but - as far as JWs are concerned - inevitably call into question the validity of the beliefs.
I have to say that I was truly surprised at times at the questions the RC asked about beliefs in general. But it started to make sense after a while. I think the RC was trying to understand ("get a feel for") the limitations/constraints of the how the beliefs impact policy and where the Organization can/cannot flex/accommodate to possible recommended changes. I think they were trying to get a clear understanding on what is negotiable vs. non-negotiable for the JWs.
At times, I even got the sense the RC was trying to help the Organization with finding a way to help them reconcile their religious beliefs (provide a loophole) in order to align to a more enlightened 21st century understanding of what is best. I think it is starting to dawn on the RC members who they are dealing with here and you can see it in their reactions. Pure, unadulterated shock and revulsion.
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Ever wondered
by NoIdeaWhatToBelieve ini was very hooked on the rc videos, really interesting to watch.
i started questioning stuff a couple of months ago.. however there is still a scenario that makes me wonder.
considering the israelites as god's chosen people and the kings as anointed, the bible shows many bad decisions the people made, including the rulers that were anointed.
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StrongHaiku
NoIdeaWhatToBelieve, I empathize and wish you a grand adventure of discovery...
One thing, have you ever watched the movie "Inception"? Layers, and layers, of being in dreams/delusions until someone (or yourself)"kicks your chair" and you wake up from one layer. You need to continue "kicking that chair". You will be surprised at how many things we all took for granted as "truth/reality".
Vidiot said it well - "It's not all that much of a stretch to go from "they had it once but lost it" to "they probably never had it"."
Don't stop there. Keep asking questions.
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A question the Chair (Mclellan) may want to ask G. Jackson
by Indian Larry inmr. jackson, we have heard testimony from mr spinks and mr. obrien that women will never have leadership positions in the congregation.
as i understand it mr. jackson, you interpret revelation 7 to mean that only 144,000 will go to heaven and that these 144,000 will rule the earth.
i also understand that your organization teaches that women are part of this "remnant" of 144,000. can you explain why jesus christ is willing to put women in leadership over the entire earth but you are not willing to permit them to have anything to do with helping victims of pedophiles in your congregation?
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StrongHaiku
"Mr. Jackson, in light of the clear indication by your own publications that JWs are to follow the instructions of the FDS without question ("Listen, Obey, be Blessed"), and in light of the fact that you were aware of the critical/serious nature of these hearings, and in view of the Bible principles/admonitions (e.g. 1 Peter 3:15) to be "ready to provide a defense for your faith", and considering other Bible principles/admonitions to care for the "orphan and widows", and in light of the fact that JWs are taught to make personal sacrifices (including death) to live up to these principles...Can I ask you one thing?
Why did it take a subpoena/request to make you show up?"
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If you could ask Geoffrey Jackson one question that he had to answer what would it be?
by jwleaks inwhat question would you ask geoffrey jackson, as a member of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses, to answer?
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jw leaks.
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StrongHaiku
Really enjoyed and agree with other poster's questions and comments. I think the RC members are pretty savvy and are likely to try ensure that when it is all over they nail down the question as to "who is ultimately responsible for past and future policies?". The JW elders/representatives have been trying to dodge that by obfuscation, pleading ignorance, and even lying ("Theocratic Warfare").
Every JW and Ex-JW knows that no one in the Organization does anything without direction from the GB. Getting G. Jackson on the record to state this truth clearly and on the record is essential because it tee's up who will ultimately be responsible for following (or not following) the RC recommendations. I can imagine G. Jackson trying to wriggle out of that by saying he is "part of the GB" but not the "GB" (like they are some sort of "Voltron" or something) or throw Jehovah under the bus ("Hey, we are just following his direction..."). But I would imagine that the RC has already thought this through and is prepared.
The one good thing is that their policies are indefensible so G. Jackson will fare no better at defending them that anyone else who has come along.
Oh, and if there was time, I would like to have them ask "What's the deal with those pinky rings? I mean, really..."
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If you could do anything publicly to get JWs out
by cognac inand money wasn't an issue, what would it be?
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StrongHaiku
How about offering a full time college scholarship to any one who is willing to remain unbaptized and leave the Organization? -
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Direction the elders rarely follow.
by notoneoftheboys inhere is a quote from a w/t article a few years ago.
in all the 8 kh i attended [work locations changed] not one body of elders followed this direction, so if they are not minding the sheep who is?
it galls me that they will quickly act if you grow a beard, or voice an opinion, or ask a question, but when your family fall foul of abuse where are the elders then?.
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StrongHaiku
What does it say about a group of people who need to be reminded to care for people and treat others with a modicum of humanity? This seems to me to be a natural impulse of most people - i.e. to be kind, to help, to look out for others, etc. One of the problems with the JWs is that they are so concerned about obeying the rules they rarely let their natural human impulses move them to what they know to be right.
You can see evidence of this in the RC hearings. A number of elders showed obvious embarrassment by the gap between what they thought they should have done versus what they were told to do.