Posts by Vee

I feel as though I've been logging on for years already since now I can't sit at my PC now without having the forum site opened!! (productivity is down but morale is up is definitely up )...but still only have 8 posts to my name...make that 9

V**

11

Does anyone know where I can get a copy?

by Vee in

jw
friends

i'd really appreciate any tips on where i can get a copy of 'crisis of conscience' by raymond v. franz from.

i'd prefer to get a copy online, and i imagine it's not the typical stock that my local books etc will stock!.

i have looked on amazon, and other searches that have come up within yahoo, but so far they're either out of stock, or don't ship outside of the us.

Vee

Hi all,

I'd really appreciate any tips on where I can get a copy of 'Crisis of Conscience' by Raymond v. Franz from. I'd prefer to get a copy online, and I imagine it's not the typical stock that my local Books etc will stock!

I have looked on Amazon, and other searches that have come up within Yahoo, but so far they're either out of stock, or don't ship outside of the US.

V**

postscript:...am currently residing in the UK

4

DA, DF & Blood

by greven in

jw
friends

hi folks!.

just a warning if you are df or da make sure you destroy your bloodcard.

recently i checked my medical files at my docter's and they did (still) mention that i was a jw and refused bloodtransfusions.

Vee

I've heard of the Elders asking for your blood card after a DF at a JC, it happened to my sister. I was under the impression that it was almost a standard practice?...Utterly disgraceful, as if what they've put you through isn't enough! I'm almost inclined to dig mine out and post it back with a copy of Lone Wolfs paper posted on the site today!

V**

7

The Blood Issue

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

in valis's thread "discussion with my dad --- ended badly", he requested some help explaining the reason that the blood doctrine is faulty.

this is something i wrote out a few years ago and i wanted to post it here in case someone could find it useful.. feel free to use it any way you wish.. .

the blood issue.

Vee

Your reasoning is fantastic, and yes I will be using it when the subject arises...which it so often does.

V**

9

How did you successfully move on...?

by Vee in

jw
friends

there are actually some questions at the bottom of this lengthy thesis, however i thought a bit (ha ha) of background might be necessary first:-) .

some 12months ago after the switch flicked over in my head, i began the challenge of facing my fears head on, which led to breaking through the first mental barriers of the damage done by 22 years (from birth) of indoctrination.. the fear of loosing all i had was insignificant in comparison to denying myself any further what it really meant to be true to myself.

for the first time, i could honestly attribute that all my mental strength and decisions were of my own accord.

Vee

Thank-you all, for your wisdom and understanding. It's so great to know there is real understanding out there.

Luv V**

9

How did you successfully move on...?

by Vee in

jw
friends

there are actually some questions at the bottom of this lengthy thesis, however i thought a bit (ha ha) of background might be necessary first:-) .

some 12months ago after the switch flicked over in my head, i began the challenge of facing my fears head on, which led to breaking through the first mental barriers of the damage done by 22 years (from birth) of indoctrination.. the fear of loosing all i had was insignificant in comparison to denying myself any further what it really meant to be true to myself.

for the first time, i could honestly attribute that all my mental strength and decisions were of my own accord.

Vee

Dear Spanner,

As you can see probably tell I'm not too good with specifics or summarising!

When I was 17 I left the org and had become involved in a relationship outside of the org. I came back a year later and was put of restrictions. After some time of relapsing it had been some 2 years since I had last been on "restrictions", and it seemed like pioneering was the next logical step. So I dropped my 5 day working week down to 4 days. Some 3 months later from nowhere appeared the man I had been in a relationship with from when I was 17/18. I was a strong person but I faced an enormous amount of difficulty facing up to him because of my past. I knew I still had incredible guilt about it all. He began to give me after 3 years a very difficult time to come back to him, one of the hardest things I had ever been faced to deal with as an adolescent. After months of trying to thwart him off on the phone I weakened and agreed to meet him but only to talk. This of course was an incredibly stupid thing to do. I couldn't tell my sisters as they had already critisised and judged me heavily for even speaking with him on the phone, and I knew they didn't really care as to how hard this time was for me. When I went to meet him he cornered me and I thought that he was going to rape me. I knew that I had put myself in a compromising stupid situation, but instead of support and understanding of how traumatic it was for me I had to sit on a JC, and was once again put on restrictions. I will never forget when I went back into the room and the elder said with a smirk that "they had decided not to disfellowship me, but next time I won't be so lucky".

At that very moment I knew that every part of my life was in their control, my happiness and my freedom, because of my fear of not conforming.

At this point I quickly became aware that the individuality I thought I possessed was not really mine. My eyes became open as it were that there were people outside the org that had balance in their lives. And although the couple I knew respected me for my principles and ideals, I knew that I was not like them, I knew that I had not established them on my own merits, or questioned them at any depth. This quickly left me realising that I was far from being true to myself. That I was just a drone attached to the hive mind.

As a whole I would say it was the inconsistencies between what I knew in my heart was real Christian love but what I knew couldn't possibly exist within the constraints of the Borg (I luv that!).

V**

8

XJWS! Remember your Training, Please!

by metatron in

jw
friends

i read so many sad stories on this board about folks who suddenly realize that the.

watchtower is a corrupt cult and then try to bombard their loyal relatives with information.

about the un, the blood fraud, molesters, etc.. big mistake!

Vee

I 100% concur with your approach in firstly addressing these inconsistencies over heavier "technical" issues. After all, for so many of us it was the "unity" of the organisation and the "love" that was shown amongst the "brothers" that either appealed to us at first as a child, or as a new convert. It was these very suttle inconsistencies which really began to add up for me, not necessarily the indepth doctrines. Which then forced me to seriously ponder about what what sort of an organisation I was so heavily committed to. It wasn't until I had raised serious doubts in myself in this manner that I was able to "bear" the more weightier "technical issues".

V**

9

How did you successfully move on...?

by Vee in

jw
friends

there are actually some questions at the bottom of this lengthy thesis, however i thought a bit (ha ha) of background might be necessary first:-) .

some 12months ago after the switch flicked over in my head, i began the challenge of facing my fears head on, which led to breaking through the first mental barriers of the damage done by 22 years (from birth) of indoctrination.. the fear of loosing all i had was insignificant in comparison to denying myself any further what it really meant to be true to myself.

for the first time, i could honestly attribute that all my mental strength and decisions were of my own accord.

Vee

There are actually some questions at the bottom of this lengthy thesis, however I thought a bit (ha ha) of background might be necessary first:-)

Some 12months ago after the switch flicked over in my head, I began the challenge of facing my fears head on, which led to breaking through the first mental barriers of the damage done by 22 years (from birth) of indoctrination.. The fear of loosing all I had was insignificant in comparison to denying myself any further what it really meant to be true to myself. For the first time, I could honestly attribute that all my mental strength and decisions were of my own accord. This new found mental freedom gave me such peace and happiness that I thought I could fly. The strength I drew from knowing that I could really trust and believe in myself would then help to bolster me for the onslaught of emotional battering that would follow.

You know what I just realised?! I think I may have started to set this one out like one of those life experiences in the back of the WT (which I would always read slowly to hopefully get through to P13 of the WTS :)

During the roughly 6month period of my mental acknowledgment of my awakening to my fizzling out I dealt with the situation as rationally and logically as I could. When I was being ostracized and abandoned by my family I used the benefit of having the way I used to think (just like themaaaaaaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhh!!!) fresh in mind to help me logically comprehend their impersonal pre-programmed reactions. This helped me not to be less irrational, but to be articulate in my responses to their interrogations. It has been some months since then and having had some unrestrained and uncensored time to think, and attempt to re-establish I no longer have emotional insight into the way I used to think. As the very thought of these teachings and behaviours makes me almost physically sick. I hate that the brain washing and indoctrination is still so very much with me though. Every day I find there is something that triggers in me and old automated response, and it really REALLY disturbs me!

I know that I will work through it as my new philosophy of life begins to take shape. Im excited by this prospect, despite the fact that every once in a while (once a week!) having to work so hard at 23 to re-establish yourself entirely with no support really gets me down. I try to pick myself up quickly out of these down times, because I refuse to let my history with the JW organisation suck any more life out of me, to use it as an excuse for further periods of mysery.

One of the first triggers for me was that after yet another bad experience I realised that all I had in my life was false. I knew, but fought it from when I was 17 out of fear of god and man that the organisations beliefs were not insinc with my own personal ideologies. I knew that at the first sign of trouble I would be dropped at a hat, that the people who should be there to support you when you really needed it would not be, and I in turn if I stayed connected could not be there for them. I began to see that I wasnt rebellious or bad as I had so many times as a young person been labelled. I was born in the now, and just living the life that I was entitled to lead, one which I directed for myself in good conscience.

Q1. I wonder for all of you who have had the same experiences and are successfully travelling down the road to recovery; How and where did you stat in rebuilding your life when you lost everything you knew, everyone you loved? Im so determined to do it on my own, and am conscious while knowing we need people in our lives to be self sufficient in this respect. I for too long depended on a false sense of security and will not depend on anything like it again.

Q3. My other question and I would love to hear your experiences is; What became of the relationship you had with close family members? I myself have not been formally DFd and have not lost all lines of communication with all of my family members. But, I find it almost impossible to think that this can possibly continue since we are without doubt oil and water now. Earlier in the year when I ceased attending meetings and associating with JWs I decided that after sitting on many JCs that the elders had no right to judge me and condemn me by the WTSs standards, nor were they entitled to private information about me that should be of no consequence to them. This is when I decided that my formally excommunicating myself from them that I might be saying that they do have the right to discipline me?! I knew that they werent interested in my personal reasonings, and if I did try I would just have misinterpreted scriptures quoted to me my rote. I would not sit outside the back school once again while the committee decided my fate, and future because of what I knew was right for me. The problem now though, is that I feel that one of my sisters and my mother who still takes my phone calls, and are still very devout in their faith, are hiding behind the lack of formality behind my decision not to DA myself. My eldest sister and her husband have made it clear to me that they will have nothing to do with me, and wished me a good life. In some bizarre way I almost respect her more for it (very strange considering she has been so callous and cruel to me!). My mum says its not necessary and my other sister agrees. I just began to feel a couple of weeks ago that I wanted to put their unconditional love (ha ha) to the test, and that I didnt want to be given or taken at their free will and convenience of conscience. I thought perhaps by formalising my clear decision to them so that there werent any doubts about the seriousness of my decision that this would some help get me more closure in this respect?. But Im still unsure of what the right thing to do would be (mind you I have moved directly to the other side of the world since then!).

I know that I will never have a close relationship, if any with my 7 brothers and sisters and parents again. I also know that I have no regrets about the intellectual decision I made to leave the JW organisation, and would not trade it in a million years for a moment to have it back the way it was. I know that in hindsight that everything I had was fake. I also know that I will make it out of all of this to real happiness, despite how hard an impossible it seems at times.

Thanks every so much for hearing me out. I cannot tell you how refreshing your discussion threads have been for me. I am truly impressed with the balance that many of you have attained since you have left the extreme ways of the JW organisation behind. I cant thank-you enough for all the good this last week of logging on to your site has done for me, although Im sure many of you have had much the same experience.

Love & Hugs, V**

24

Did being a witness bring out the best or worst?

by freedom96 in

jw
friends

a person years ago made a comment to me, about witnesses.

they said that in their opinion, being a witness brought out the extreme in a person.. for example, if they were untrusting, they would trust less.. if they were vindictive by nature, they would become more hateful and vindictive.. if they were kind and loving, they would even be more so.. basically, whatever type of person they were, being a witness would intensify that persona.. have you found that to be true?

maybe you knew someone before they came a witness.

Vee

In the case of my parents who became associated with the JW organisation in the mid 1970's, I would have to say that their affiliation most definitely brought out the extremes in their behavioural tendancies. I once had this best described to me best by an ex-associate of mine as the "1970's mentality". In the case of my father the organisation gave justification to his need for extreme control and discipline. For my mother it meant that she would theoretically attain the love and respect that she so desperately desired through the principle of the "Headship arrangement".

Please do not think that I am generalising that all who became involved at this time did so to fulfill their fantasies of what life in their "ideal" could be like so as to hide and not deal with their insecurites. In the case of my parents it did bring out the occassional extreme which did benefit the family. I do think however, that in choosing to be a JW you are choosing to be an extremist. Having a fatalistic viewpoint on life in the now will do that to you, especially when something can only be but black/white, or good/evil.

This is my first time on your site, and I say with full sincerity that I am really impressed with its content. Of the few sites that I have visited for the first time in the past few weeks I was disappointed with the bitter and twisted outlook that I saw in the writing. If there is one thing that I desperately want for myself now that I am an ex-JW (who made an intellectual decision to no longer associate) is to gain balance in my life, and to no longer think in extremes, and exist in fear.

Look forward to visiting again soon.

V**