Posts by Noumenon

11

Zee Sensual Meditation

by refiners fire in

hmmmm.

ive been doing a bit of reading of raelian publications, and present some highlights from raels book sensual meditation for your edification.

the book presents 6 lessons in sensual mediation each escalating above the previous lesson in levels of awareness and overcoming irrationally programmed self loathing and societally induced sexual repression.

Noumenon

What are Raelians? Is that that cult that wanted to go up to that comet and ended up topping themselves?

(methinks you read a lot more naughty stuff than just Raelian publications Refinersfire)

2

Critical reasoning - getting personal

by Noumenon in

attacking the character of the person with whom you are arguing rather than finding fault with his or her argument (eg, "i loathe that elder, so will ignore his counsel to me, even though it's straight from the bible".

eg, 'that ex-jw is so bitter and just wants to bad-mouth the organisation, so i will dismiss out of hand anything they have to say'

eg, 'the organisation has failed to adequately protect children against child molesters, therefore i reject all their teachings'.

Noumenon

Attacking the character of the person with whom you are arguing rather than finding fault with his or her argument (eg, "I loathe that elder, so will ignore his counsel to me, even though it's straight from the bible". eg, 'That ex-JW is so bitter and just wants to bad-mouth the Organisation, so I will dismiss out of hand anything they have to say' . eg, 'the Organisation has failed to adequately protect children against child molesters, therefore I reject all their teachings'. eg 'Those Silentlambs people are just apostates, so I don't believe anything they say'. ). The move is traditionally known as arguing ad hominem (from the Latin for 'to the person'.) Getting personal is, in most parts, a technique of rhetoric, since discrediting the source of an argument usually leaves the argument itself intact.

For instance, if a politician argued that lowering the speed limit in built-up areas would reduce accidents involving children, and a journalist attacked this on the grounds that the politician had been fined for drunken driving and speeding on several occasions, this would be a case of getting personal. The question of whether or not the politician is a safe driver is irrelevant to the question of whether lowering the speed limit in built-up areas will reduce accidents. The politician's claim is best assessed by examining the evidence in support of the conclusion. The journalist deflected attention from the argument under consideration towards the alleged hypocrisy of the person who put the argument forward But it is clear that hypocrites can put forward excellent arguments: many do.

Take another example. If a member of an appointments committee makes a very strong case for a particular applicant being given the job, and it is subsequently learnt that this applicant had been having an affair with him at the time, then this fact might be taken to undermine the case made to the appointments committee. The member of the appointments committee had a vested interest in seeing that particular candidate succeed. However, the nature of the personal relationship in no way destroys the force of the case. If good reasons were given for employing this person above other candidates, then they remain good reasons. What would probably be unfair in such a situation is that the other candidates would not have had such a motivated advocate working on their behalf. If there was prejudice in favour of this particular candidate then getting personal about the appointer's involvement would be appropriate.

Obviously if an argument involves our taking factual premises on trust, then it would be appropriate to point out that the arguer is a compulsive liar, if this is so. In this sort of case getting personal is focused on a relevant aspect of the arguer's character and so is an acceptable move to make. However, in most cases getting personal focuses on irrelevant aspects of character, thereby deflecting attention from the arguments given.

(taken from 'Thinking from A to Z' by Nigel Warburton)

Critical thinking - Kowtowing

by Noumenon in

being over deferential.

there have been many great thinkers in history and it can be tempting to treat anything whatsoever said by a thinker whom you greatly admire as if it were obviously true ('faithful and discreet slave' must be right on everything because they have a great knowledge of scripture?).

sometimes there may be excellent reasons for relying on the opinions of experts and the authority of those who have devoted their lifetime to the study of a particular subject.

Noumenon

Being over deferential. There have been many great thinkers in history and it can be tempting to treat anything whatsoever said by a thinker whom you greatly admire as if it were obviously true ('faithful and discreet slave' must be right on everything because they have a great knowledge of scripture?). Sometimes there may be excellent reasons for relying on the opinions of experts and the authority of those who have devoted their lifetime to the study of a particular subject. However, this attitude can be taken too far and degenerate into obseqiousness and excessive humility, which gets in the way of critical thought (JW's idolising the 'faithful and discreet slave' class and the Organisation as a whole, putting it ahead of). Kowting means, literally, touching the ground with one's forehead as a sign of deference.

For instance, even though Friedrich Nietzsche had many interesting and profound thoughts on a range of subjects, it would be merely kowtowing to him to take seriously his pronouncements on women (he famously declared, 'When thou goest to a woman take they whip'), just because he is a thinker whom you respect. Uncritical acceptance of other people's ideas leads to mental stagnation (stagnation is surely evident within the Organisation).

6

Critical thinking - Alternative Explanations

by Noumenon in

ignored explanations of the phenomenon in question.

in many situations it is tempting to believe that because an explanation is consistent with the known facts it must therefore be the correct explanation.

this is especially tempting when the particular explanation is the on which we would most like to be true (egs, jesus returned in 1914. the gentile times start in 607ce.

Noumenon

Ignored explanations of the phenomenon in question. In many situations it is tempting to believe that because an explanation is consistent with the known facts it must therefore be the correct explanation. This is especially tempting when the particular explanation is the on which we would most like to be true (egs, Jesus returned in 1914. The Gentile Times start in 607CE. The last century saw more wars, famine, earthquakes, pestilence, and lawness than any other). However, this is wishful thinking and ignores the possibility of plausible alternative explanations of precisely the same observations.

The formal fallacy of affirming the consequent typically involves ignoring alternative explanations, as for instance in the following example:

If you accidentally expose your film, then your photographs won't come out. Your photographs haven't come out. So you must have accidentally exposed your film.

Here the numerous alternative explanations for the photographs' not coming out have been completely ignored: you could have had faulty film, they could have ben inexpertly developed, or perhaps you forgot to remove the lens cap.

When people are arguing from the existence of a correlation to a conclusion about a causal connection they are particularly prone to neglect the possibility of alternative explanations. For instance, a scientist attempting to show that musical ability is largely inherited might examine the musical ability of a large number of children of talented musicians and compare this with the ability of children from non-musical families. It would not be surprising in such a survey to discover a significant correlation btween a proficient musician and one or both of your parents being musical themselves. However, if the scientist were to take this as firm evidence of inherited musical ability this would be an unreliable conclusion to draw from this evidence alone, since children of musicians are far more likely to be taught to play a musical instrument from an early age than are other children. In other words, the scientist would be ignoring an alternative explanation of the same phenomenon. In fact, probably the most plausible explanation is that there are both hereditary and environmental factors in musical ability; this too is consistent with the observed facts in the imaginary case above.

People who believe that aliens from another galaxy regularly visit the earth, occasionally abduct people in order to perform medical experiments on them, buzz unsuspecting airline pilots and so on, usually maintain their exotic beliefs by ignoring the alternative explanations of the phenomena they take to be evidence for their beliefs. So, for instance, although it is undoubtedly true that strange patterns are sometimes found in cornfields, it doesn't follow that they must have been made by extraterrestrials. There is a wide range of far more plausible alternative explanations of the phenomenon, such as that they have been made by pranksters, or are the result of freak weather conditions. It is a huge and unwarranted step to move from the fact that such crop circles could have been caused by extraterrestials to the conclusion that the they must have been. Before reaching that conclusion you would have to prove that visits by extraterrestials are the only possible explanation, or at least the most plausible one, for crop circles. Only when we have eliminated other possible explanations should we believe the improbabl. And even then we should be aware of the power of wishful thinking.

1

Wishful Thinking

by Noumenon in

believing that because it would be nice if something were true, then it must actually be true (it would be nice to think jesus returned in 1914. it would be nice to think armageddon is just around the corner).

this pattern of thought is extremely common, and very tempting because it allows us to avoid unpalatable truths.

in extreme forms it is a king of self-deception; in milder forms, an unwarranted optimism (believing the end is 'just around the corner' motivates one to keep performing as one is expected to as a jw).

Noumenon

Believing that because it would be nice if something were true, then it must actually be true (it would be nice to think Jesus returned in 1914. It would be nice to think Armageddon is just around the corner). This pattern of thought is extremely common, and very tempting because it allows us to avoid unpalatable truths. In extreme forms it is a king of self-deception; in milder forms, an unwarranted optimism (believing the end is 'just around the corner' motivates one to keep performing as one is expected to as a JW). It is surprising the lengths to which some people go and the rationalisations they will make in order to avoid confronting evidence that would undermine their wishful thinking (eg, nothing wrong with our cherished 1914 teaching, but 'rather than providing a rule for measuring time the term 'generation' as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying charactistics'. WT Nov 1 '95. Eg, our policy on child abuse is perfectly fine and in harmony with scripture!) Wishful thinking can be dangerous because it puts a veil between us and the truth. JW's as an Organisation and as individuals fall victim to this.

27

Daniel 11:37

by Yizuman in

daniel 11.

37 neither shall he regard the god of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all..

i'm leaving this up for interpretation.. this verse is speaking of the coming anti-christ and it gives a bit of some detail about his background....note it states that he will have no desire for women.. so what does that make the anti-christ be???.

Noumenon

"What have I to do with you woman" - JC

"When thou goest to a woman take they whip" - Friedrick Nietzshe

13

My experience and motives

by Noumenon in

i'm an inactive dub.

i still ponder a lot on my true motives and the chain of events and developments in my heart and mind that have led to where i am.

here's my story anyway.

Noumenon

Greetings. I'm an inactive dub. I still ponder a lot on my true motives and the chain of events and developments in my heart and mind that have led to where I am. Here's my story anyway. Like many I was troubled by the 'new light' on the meaning of the 'this generation' thing that came out in the mid 1990's (I still believe the Society have this all wrong), and I also fortuitously discovered other chronological interpretations which made me question 607BCE and 2520 years and so forth. I think this led me to lose respect and faith in the JW leadership and begin to think more critically about what I was being told. I was now sceptical of anything relating to prophetic interpretations and the timing of events surrounding the end of the system and Christ's return as taught by the WTS. I think this then led to an erosion in my ability to withstand immorality, because I was a single brother who had not had much luck with sisters, and before long I came into temptation to be immoral. Eventually I fell into immorality with a nearly divorced sister, who was at it happens on her way out of the truth anyway. I got privately reproved after running to the elders 2 days after I did 'the deed', but never quite recovered, and didn't 'knuckle down' like a good dub should do to prove their repentance. So I lost the respect of friends and the congregation. I sensed I was being shunned. I was on a slippery slope emotionally. So I eventually just stopped attending altogether out of extreme discouragement. I could no longer sense the love or friendship of the rather cliquey congo I was in (how many aren't cliquey though). I then fell into fornication again with a worldly women this time. I felt bad about it the whole time, but I was dying of loneliness and felt cold emotionally, so I carried on for a while, trying to rationalise in my mind what my body and emotions craved and what I knew in my heart and mind was wrong. Eventually I couldn't take it anymore and spurned the love of this nice girl, who I hurt badly by pushing away (something I still regret in hindsight). I ran to the elders like a weak child and wanted my conscience cleared. Amazingly they didn't deep fry me but merely privately reproved me again (I guess I've always been good in 'interview' situations). But thereafter I was being shunned even more and not shown friendship socially by the congo and other single ones. An elder even mentioned that he'd heard someone mention they thought I was a 'womaniser' (I guess I was) which made me feel terrible as I knew now that others were gossiping about me and I had a reputation. So I felt isolated and started missing more and more meetings and stopped going on FS. Eventually I sought the company of my formerly worldly girlfriend again, but I just using her for company and sex really (yes, what a total bastard, I agree), until I reached a point of such self-loathing that I just had to run away from myself. And so I moved to a different part of the country altogether, to try a fresh start spiritually. I had lost all self-respect and despised my own hypocritical immoral behaviour. I joined up with a new congregation in my old home city, with old friends around me and family, who I felt could offer me the compansionship and emotional support I needed to rebuild spiritually. I tried really hard for a while and was doing quite well, but because of my old persistent doubts about some of the Society's teaching re chronology and the timing of Christ's presence etc, I just couldn't maintain the level of service expected of a typical dub. I slackened off and weakened, and isolated myself yet again. I also resented the elders who I felt couldn't be bothered offering me any sheperding or encouragement. And then, yes you guessed it, I met another worldy woman and fell into the same rotten cycle of fornication/remorse/fornication/remorse/fornication again, feed by loneliness and a normal longing for companionship and love. Eventually I fessed to the elders again (don't know why I bothered looking back), and this time I got deep fried for sure (3 strikes and yer out kid!) and was now right out of the truth. But I began attending practically every meeting to get reinstated as quickly as possibly, despite lapsing into immorality a few times while being disfellowshipped and basically lying at my reinstatement meeting 9 months later. What a filthy hypocrite I felt. Yet my main motive in getting reinstated was to have the company of my loved ones again, especially my mother, who was really hurting by my being d'd. Being a classic JW she wouldn't have nought to do with me while d'd, and that pained me also. So my motive for getting re-instated wasn't sincere and genuine. I just wanted to be able to be with my family and a couple of close JW friends again, that's all (what does the Society expect when they create such a cruel shunning policy - they are emotionally blackmailing d'd people into returning so they can associate with loved ones and friends again).

I never recovered after getting reinstated. I ended up carrying on a secret immoral relationship with a sister who threw herself at me in my congregation. What a damn idiot. No one else knows to this day. She just carries on pretending she's a good little dub sister. I've tried to end things with her and I think I've managed to do that now. My conscience is destroyed by my own immorality and sins and I just couldn't face sitting in the Kingdom Hall knowing what I was doing. (1 Cor 14:25)

Now I seem trapped in a cycle of fornication. I miss being a JW in many many ways, and even though I know they have got some things wrong, mainly 1914, and I feel awful and ashamed at the reproach on jehovah's name by the child molestation scandals breaking out (their policy on this is so wrong wot?), there is a big part of me would like to be back again, even if just for the warm association and friendship again. But I feel I practically no chance of gaining the respect of a sister and finding a marriage mate, because of all my past misdemeanours and my bad reputation. I just know I won't have the strength to lift myself by my own shoe-strings and go to every meeting and go on FS all the time to rebuild my reputation. It's too hard and I'm too weak.

I often think back nostalgically to my happy times as a dub. I was born into it, so it will always be a part of me, I'm not stupid enough to fool myself into not believing that. I am a CHRISTIAN. I WANT to be a GOOD CHRISTIAN and obey Jehovah and Jesus Christ! That's what it's about at the end of the day - OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND JESUS! I hate myself for being immoral and wish I could bust out of this cycle and just be strong for what I know is right and be a good christian again. One day I know I will...with God's help. Meantime I hope Jehovah doesn't judge me too harshly but looks for something deeper and better in the recesses of my heart. Every now and then I offer a little tearful prayer to jehovah for mercy and forgiveness. I hope he hears me and searches my kidneys for something good. One day I know I will be a good christian again and make him proud of me again.

40

If God And His Thoughts Are Perfect - How Did Humans & Satan Become Evil?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

this question may not make too much sense.

if a man creates a computer, using the best parts and software design with the intent of analyzing data accurately and reliably, would he also design it with the ability or freedom to 'crash' or spread viruses to other computers if it chose to?

if a man trains a dog with the intent of being a family pet, would he also give it the knowledge to kill humans or other animals?

Noumenon

You are putting a biased assumption on what you think being perfect and in God's image means. Just being created perfect and in God's image doesn't mean one has no conception of evil, malice, selfishness, etc. Jesus was perfect but was 'tempted' the bible tells us, so he obviously felt something akin to what we feel as a pull to do wrong on occasions, but being perfect he always mastered it. He 'conquered the world'. He also said 'let not my will, but yours take place', so being perfect doesn't mean he could not have a will and desire at odds with God's.

27

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-10-03 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 8-10-03 wt study

reviewer comments are in black and parentheses ().

wt quotes are in red or quotes ""

Noumenon

Blondie, you are the queen of hyper criticalness. Your ad-hominem approach to reviewing Watchtower Articles is understandable, but sometimes unfair. While there is a lot of self-righteous 'truth by authority' garbage in most of the Watchtower articles, there is also a lot of stuff that I find to be rather good bible instruction!

4

Snakes image in illustration in WT study just done

by Noumenon in

i was at the meeting on sunday just gone (first time in about 5 weeks), and being a lot more attentive to detail these days, i noticed in the illustration of jacob and his sons (page 20 of june 15th watchtower) on the wall behind the old jacob there is what is clearly a bird with wings spread, but have a look at it's nec and head?

it looks more like a coiled serpent with large wings than a bird!

more sneaky images of snakes and s's (sssatan the original ssserpent)?.

Noumenon

Whatever Shamus. I take offence at being told to stop going to meetings just as much as I resent being told by the Organisation to keep going to them. If I so choose to attend the occassional meeting what's it to you?