Prime

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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  Just because there are no mandatory reporting laws in England, Wales and Scotland (Northern Ireland does) does not mean that the UK government is silent on the subject.

  On the contrary there are recommended best practice guidelines - "What to do if you're worried a child is being abused"

  One of the first directions is:

  10.2 Remember that an allegation of child abuse or neglect may lead to a criminal investigation, so don’t do anything that may jeopardise a police investigation, such as asking a child leading questions or attempting to investigate the allegations of abuse.

  Perhaps Prime (or anyone else) can explain how the Watchtower Society child protection policy complies with this basic initial instruction?

  The victim in this case was not a child. This is par for the course when a victim tells something to an elder. Victims come forward as adults about abuse that occurred years ago.

  To be applicable, the instruction would read;

  "What to do if an adult comes to you about abuse that occurred years ago"

  No where in the guidelines does it bring such circumstances into question.

  "There is no mandatory reporting law in the UK as there is in some other countries: the relevant statutory guidance allows heads to exercise a degree of discretion about what to report."

  There is reason to exercise a degree of discretion when it's adults telling you things. It's unlikely that a child would bring anything to an elder, but even if it is not a child, but a minor who is sixteen for example, the elders are instructed not to pursue the matter in anyway before contacting a branch office.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  @Prime: You never answered my question - why did the elders REFUSE to cooperate with the police. Why did it take 3 years and a court order to make them cooperate? Why, if your duty is to report, does the WTBTS require you to call their legal team first for advice when the WTBTS is not the organization that's involved and does not protect individual elders (they are not barristers or lawyers to the elders)?

  How is it that the elders for three years refused to cooperate with the police? All the police can do in respects to this matter is ask the elders to make a statement. Whether they choose to make a statement or not, this conversation would take place over the course of a few minutes, not a few years. It's questionable whether the information sought by the investigating officer(s) was needed to bring a charge because of what is stated here;

  "But Newcastle Crown Court heard he had secretly confessed to the abuse to the elders."

  Up to this point, the elders didn't make a statement, so the police obviously had the same information.

  If the courts needed the elders to testify for a conviction, this is an option. The position taken by the elders was to testify if they have a legal obligation to do so. The elder's position is black and white. This article makes it sound like the law is not definitive on this matter, therefore, the law is gray.

  If an arrangement exists where a person will speak to you in confidence provided it stays that way, it's best that the law dictate what's in the public's best interest if what was stated in confidence should be disclosed.

  When it comes to some matters, if a person can't speak to you in confidence, they're not going to speak to you at all.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  OK. Prove it. Where is your evidence?

  As Phizzy asks so do I. Prime, your constant siding with the watchtower(R) over their vile unrepentant practice of protecting paedophiles is questionable. You come over as more interested in protecting Jehovah's witness paedophiles than in protecting children from those monsterous predators.

  No valid response, so start attacking me personally...

  I don't personally care who goes to jail for a crime punishable by law. I'm primarily concerned with doing the right thing towards all involved parties in any given situation. I primarily stated my position, not strictly the current position of Watchtower Society or the position of the elders in this recent news article. You're entitled to your opinion, but that doesn't mean you can force your opinion on others.

  Every other word on this forum is "sue." One person said the Watchtower Society should be sued if someone gets bit by a dog while in the door-to-door ministry. People like you have absolutely no regard for the law. I've demonstrated that I do.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  Of course "Jehovah's Organization" would have no moral duty to report would they ? they are as lacking in morals as the God they serve.

  In all of the WT/JW handling of such things there is no thought, or consideration., let alone love, for the poor victims who have had their lives ruined by these evil men.

  It should be everybody's first move to report even suspicions of abuse to the correct authorities, who will appoint trained personnel to deal with it.

  The U.K's Prime Minister has gone on record as saying this should be the norm.

  To delay is to allow time for the abuser to threaten witnesses, and or the abused, and to cover their tracks, if that does not happen, as it has many times, they are still free to abuse further until stopped.

  The WT/JW Org. disgusts me that they do not see this, and do not direct their Elders to act as any responsible citizen morally should, Law or no law.

  You disgust me Prime, for attempting to defend them.

  Most persons don't agree with the "prime minister's" approach.

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/22/abuse-allegations-school-teachers-reporting

  Why schools are failing to protect pupils from abuse

  Two recent cases show that headteachers can't always be relied upon to protect children from abuse in school. Now campaigners are calling for urgent changes to the law.

  There is no mandatory reporting law in the UK as there is in some other countries: the relevant statutory guidance allows heads to exercise a degree of discretion about what to report.

  http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2170094
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  Prime said: "I disagree with the elder's decision to not initially turn the confession over to the investigating officers and the court without being compelled."-- Perhaps stalling, in regard to turning over evidence, (until forced to do so) is part of an Elders training and mentality..As indicated by the example cited here: "..page 143 of the elders handbook, Pay Attention To Yourselves and to All the Flock. This page is left blank, with elders filling in dictated notes. In regards to child abuse the following paragraph is scribed. Child Abuse. Ref Letters: A.B.E Aug 29th 1989 pg 3; LLA 10/10/2002; 28/8/02. Legal ramifications. *In cases of either accusation or allegations of child abuse, immediately contact the society. Do not talk to anyone else. *If a brother or a sister confesses to child abuse, ask them not to speak to anyone else till you get back to them, and contact the society immediately.. ..*If presented with a search warrant or a subpoena, the last resort is to hand over any material. (Cong file) Find out exactly what is wanted and hand over only that. Preferably seek legal advice first. (stall) Read the warrant. Write on envelope Ecclesiastical privilege claimed, not to be opened until matter is determined by court. " http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php

  What you have posted is an addition to the book available to Australian elders only. It was an addition to the 1989 version of the book. The added information you're quoting was for Australian congregations only. It was not in the U.S. version of the book. Why do you think that is?

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandated_reporter

  "In many U.S. states and Australia, mandated reporters are professionals who..."

  I don't know about Australia, but clergy wasn't mandated as "professionals applicable to child abuse reporting laws," in the United States at that time.

  If an elder has a legal obligation to report, they need to be the first one to do that. That is why this stated; "If a brother or a sister confesses to child abuse, ask them not to speak to anyone else till you get back to them, and contact the society immediately."

  The legal ramifications associated with the information you posted has to do with reporting laws and defamation statutes.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  "Mr Scott said contacting the police was not discussed as an option."

  So after hearing a confession of horrific sexual predatory behaviour against children the Jehovah's Witness elders don't even mention the police as a possible option.

  Any questions on why there is a scandal?

  Excellent point. They did contact the headquarters in London. The U.K. doesn't have mandatory reporting laws. Make a simple comparison to any other organization. An organization has never been under fire for how they interacted with law enforcement. Not, for that reason in itself. The reason why; is because if a person is an adult, they always have this resource at their disposal. If a person wants to press charges, this option is open to them.

  In times past, prior to a church official being criminally charged, victims and their families wrote letter after letter to an organization's headquarters. If the men being accused were stripped of their position as clergy, excommunicated from the church and the families were informed of their right to seek further retribution through the criminal justice system, most persons would accept this as an adequate response. If a cardinal testified to a confession upon being subpoenaed, that would appease the mind of a victim even more.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/church-set-up-probe-to-see-if-sin-had-been-committed-over-sex-assault-allegations-1-5858467

  Mr Scott said after the “confession” Leighton was “reproved”, which means he was disciplined and all privileges removed from him.

  He was not, at that stage, “disfellowed”, or banished from the church. Being “disfellowed” means nobody is allowed to speak to the disfellowed member and while they may still attend meetings, they are not allowed to participate.

  Mr Scott said contacting the police was not discussed as an option.

  It was only later, when allegations of violence were made against Leighton, that he was disfellowed and expelled from the congregation.

  Mr Scott said: “It is not what you expect a Christian, someone who lives by Christian standards, to do, acting violently towards someone.

  “The Bible says violence should be avoided.”

  Henry Logan is also an elder at the congregation. He was also at the meeting and had participated in the internal “investigation”. He too said Leighton had initially denied the allegations.

  But he added: “He then said that he had been drunk at the time and he may have done those things while he was drunk.”

  Mr Logan said he was present when Leighton was told he would be reproved after the admissions.

  He said: “He put his hands over his face and said ‘oh, I thought I was going to be disfellowshipped’ and he had tears in his eyes.”

  Simon Preyser is an elder from the Roker congregation in Sunderland.

  He chaired the meeting and described the allegations as “horrific”.

  Mr Preyser told the court about Leighton’s initial denials but added: “He said ‘it might well be, while under the influence of alcohol, I did things I shouldn’t have done. Some of the things she’s said, I’ve done’.

  “He just simply said ‘I’m sorry’.”

  According to what's stated in Galatians 6:1, the elders don't have the right to automatically disfellowship anyone if a person appears to be repentant. If anything else ever comes to light however, a person is rarely given a third chance as indicated in this article. These articles are evidence of what I've stated in the past, that it's adults that tell things to elders, not children.

  http://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/crime/jehovah-s-witnesses-hushed-up-child-sex-scandal-1-5858460
  Prosecutor Katherine Dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.
  
  It appears that the victim told the police and the elders at about the same time. I disagree with the elder's decision to not initially turn the confession over to the investigating officers and the court without being compelled. They did however comply with the law and it doesn't appear that evidence of a penitential communication to a religious leader was needed for a successful prosecution.

  You also have to wonder how the legal system found out that this man confessed to the elders. It's likely because the congregation publicized this matter to some extent. This would not be the case with traditional “ penitential communications,” and some laws in the United States would block any disclosure to the legal system or anyone else. The laws in the US are black and white.
  
  http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=evid&group=01001-02000&file=1030-1034
  
  1032. As used in this article, "penitential communication" means a communication made in confidence, in the presence of no third person so far as the penitent is aware, to a member of the clergy who, in the course of the discipline or practice of the clergy member's church, denomination, or organization, is authorized or accustomed to hear those communications and, under the discipline or tenets of his or her church, denomination, or organization, has a duty to keep those communications secret.
  
  When it comes to any other church that's been criticized for their response to this matter, if a person was stripped of any and all privileges on the first offense, and kicked out of the church on a second offense, there would be no “scandal.”
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  I wonder how long it was before he was expelled and also was he expelled because of that? It doesn't seem to be standard policy to expel over child abuse ... maybe the only did because of publicity? The holy spirit doesn't seem to enjoy a light shining toward it.

  It wouldn't be a surprise if they didn't expel him for that but did for disagreeing with the elders or apostacy - they view either as more serious 'crimes'.

  I can't understand how you reached that conclusion. The truth of the matter, is that it would be redundant to enact a policy that automatically routes any and all confessions to the police. It is true in this case, that without the elders, there would be no confession. It's best for law enforcement to dictate the terms regarding voluntary confessions to "professionals," whether a person is confessing to a religious leader, therapist or social worker.

  This article reveals, that if the elders are ordered to testify in court, they will comply with the law. If you read the police report for Jonathan Kendrick in 2004, the elders turned over a confession to the investing officer without in anyway being compelled.

  Elders may vary in how they relate to this matter, but they do comply with the law. Much more than you can say for others;

  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-18/priests-may-be-forced-to-divulge-confessions/4137720

  "Brennan says priests can never reveal secrets of the confessional, and he would rather go to jail than violate the trust of those who come to confession."

  Apostates salivate over anything scandalous and will exploit, exaggerate and even tell outright lies about the Witnesses. It would take all of about five seconds to prove that. Now, you are accusing me of being a pedophile because I'm relaying the facts as stated in court cases, this and other articles.

  I'm resilient enough to keep cool in spite of all of that. This is the third time you've broken your own forum rules. If you don't want any "apologists" on this forum, just add it to the forum guidelines instead of playing games. If you're a moderator, there's no need to attack me personally.
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  172

  Britain | Jehovah's Witnesses hushed up child sex scandal | July 16, 2013

  by jwleaks in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  church officials hushed up a child sex scandal in their ranks and refused to co-operate with police.. .

  jehovah witness ministerial servant gordon leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard.. but during the official police investigation, the 53-year-old who made headlines in the 1990s when wife yvonne, 28, died after refusing a blood transfusion after childbirth on religious grounds denied any illegal wrongdoing.. and when detectives asked elders simon preyser, harry logan and david scott to make statements about the confession, all three refused and said what they had heard was confidential.. for three years, the elders refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation and kept up that stance when the case was brought before newcastle crown court after the victim made a complaint to police.. each was issued with a witness summons which they fought to overturn before being ordered to testify by judge penny moreland citing public interest.. their barrister richard daniels said the men had a duty to god not to breach confidence.. he added: privileged communication between members of the congregation and ministers is an absolute right and duty and there is no power in law to breach such a confidence.. judge moreland said: it is apparent that the three elders who were present when this conversation took place are in possession of relevant evidence as to a point which is of real significance in this case.. they claim the right of confidentiality, they claim that what they heard said by the defendant during the course of that meeting ought to be subject to privilege, as ministers of religion.. judge moreland refused to withdraw the summonses and said: public interest is clearly in favour of this evidence being given.. what was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial.. despite the judges ruling, the men still refused to make statements to police until just hours before they were called before the jury.. leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at lambton kingdom hall in washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.. he was yesterday found guilty of two charges of indecency with a child and six of indecent assault.

  he was found not guilty of one indecent assault charge, on the direction of the judge.. he was remanded in custody until he is sentenced next month but warned he is facing a lengthy spell behind bars.. prosecutor katherine dunn told the court the victim, who is now an adult, broke her silence in 2009.. the court heard how at a special church meeting, leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behaviour.. miss dunn said: the elders conducted their own investigation.

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  Prime

  "Jehovah Witness ministerial servant Gordon Leighton admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted by his church elders, a court heard."

  The court heard that at a special meeting, aimed at "keeping the congregation clean", Leighton admitted sexual abuse and made excuses for his behavior."

  Leighton, who has since been expelled from the church at Lambton Kingdom Hall in Washington, denied two charges of indecency with a child and seven of indecent assault.

  "Public interest is clearly in favor of this evidence being given. What was said by the defendant on that occasion is of great significance in the trial."

  The way some of these articles are crafted takes a tone of propaganda. There's more than one perspective to these articles.

  There are scriptures in the Bible regarding "confidential talk," but either way, the stand taken by the organization aids and abets law enforcement.

  A person may disagree with the religious sentiment of the organization, but without it, there will be no confession. At the least, this article reveals that this man denied allegations against him to the police and the courts.

  If there was a hard-line policy that all confessions are automatically routed to the police, the chances that there will be a confession would be greatly reduced.

  If the victim however reports the perpetrator to law enforcement as was done in this case, the confession can be subpoenaed into evidence, and three elders will testify against the suspect as was done in this case.

  In this case, the congregation provided the victim with additional options that would otherwise not exist;

  1. The perpetrator was expelled (kicked out) from the congregation.

  2. The congregation supplied additional evidence that would otherwise not exist, evidence that aided the court in reaching a guilty verdict.
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  91

  Open letter – Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

  by Prime in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  "jws leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them.

  " -barbara anderson .

  this is another reason why the watchtower society doesn't require that the elders uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.

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  Prime

  If the welfare of children was the main priority the policy would read...

  "When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they should first contact the police &/or social services and follow their advice. If the accusation involves a member of the congregation please also keep the legal department informed of the situation."

  The focus of elder's training would be how to support and reassure victims without prejudicing legal investigations.

  There are some states that draw no distinction between "professionals" and other adults when it comes to this matter.

  If someone is "mandated as a professional applicable to child abuse reporting laws," their responsibility is not discretionary. If there was an alternate route to take when it comes to instructing the elders, it would read as follows;

  "When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they should first contact the police &/or social services for information and advice about their legal requirements. If the accusation involves a member of the congregation, please also keep the legal department informed of the situation."

  The difference between the legal department and the police &/or social services is the legal department will ensure compliance with the law, whereas the latter will just charge a person with a crime if it comes to light the law was violated.

  The legal department isn't just for the purpose of "advice," it's also to "ensure that elders comply with the law."

  Just about all organizations have some sort of centralized administration when it comes to any kind of legal matter. This is to ensure that things are followed through with.