Open letter – Re: Mr. Bowen, Mrs. Anderson

by Prime 91 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Prime
    Prime

    "JWs leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction; Prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities; Do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused; Prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry, and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them." -Barbara Anderson

    "JWs leaders need to mandate elder bodies to uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction..."

    What authority gives this woman or the administrative position of Jehovah's Witnesses the right to require more from the elders than the federal government? This woman is not above the law and neither is the Watchtower Society. The Watchtower Society doesn't have the right to ask more of the elders than what's legally and scripturally required of them.

    w52 6/15 p. 374 par. 4 Subjection to Superior Authorities

    Jesus pronounced a sound legal doctrine. That doctrine is simply stated, ‘Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.’

    The elders are expected to use common sense. There are multiple instances where the elders have involved the police in response to domestic abuse, regardless of what's legally required of them. I've been witness to more than one.

    If you'll note any circumstance brought to the fore, where the elders themselves didn't make a report to law enforcement, they received information from adults, not children. This is another reason why the Watchtower Society doesn't require that the elders “uniformly report abuse to the authorities no matter what jurisdiction.” If an adult is making an accusation against a person, you don't have to go to the police for them. Any adult is expected to take some responsibly for themselves. Any eyewitness to a crime or confession can speak with more certainty than a hearsay witness. Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence.

    “Prohibit elders from being involved in any investigative process to decide guilt or innocence in place of the authorities;...”

    It's appropriate for any organization that promotes family values to take some action against anyone who persists in a crime punishable by law. If anyone should be kicked out of an organization of law abiding citizens for any reason, crimes against children should take precedent. The policy that dictates the investigative process and judicial system used by Jehovah's Witnesses to expel repeat offenders doesn't take the place of the secular authorities and never has.

    http://www.jw-media.org/aboutjw/article23.htm

    In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, the elders receive proper legal direction to ensure that they comply with the law. Additionally, the victim or anyone else who has knowledge of the allegation may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

    The congregation doesn't interfere with the legal system doing its job. The circumstances surrounding this latest Fremont, California lawsuit is evidence of that. In 1993 and 2004, a spouse and in-law of Jonathan Kendrick reported him to the elders and the police. In 2004, he was reported to the elders and the police at the same time. As a result, the police started calling the elders trying to obtain information.

    “Do away with the two-witness rule to determine, as if they were magistrates, guilt or innocence of someone accused;”

    As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, “No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.” (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony may be deemed sufficient to take action.

    A Bible-based organization is to do away with what is stated in the Bible? For what reason? What the Bible states about “two witnesses” simply pertains to the congregation's response to an accusation of wrong-doing. It has no connection to, nor does it influence the secular authorities, courts or any civil proceeding.

    w97 8/15 p. 28 Why Report What Is Bad?

    But suppose the person does deny the charge and you are the only witness against him. Could you now be open to a countercharge of slander? No, not unless you have gossiped to those not involved in the matter. It is not slanderous to report conditions affecting a congregation to those having authority and responsibility to oversee and correct matters. It is, in fact, in line with our desire always to do what is correct and loyal.—Compare Luke 1:74, 75.

    This Bible-based concept has merit in secular courts. Our secular judicial system adheres to a premise of scientific evidence and testimony based on credible witnesses. Judicial gridlock (reasonable doubt) will likely result if it's strictly one person's word against another with no other corroborating evidence.

    “Prohibit so-called repentant molesters from engaging in the door-to-door ministry...”

    If a person can legally enter a certain neighborhood uninhibited by state or federal sanctions, such a person is simply allowed to participate in the door-to-door ministry with the service group. I can't say it's never happened, but I've never heard of anyone assaulted at the door by one of Jehovah's Witnesses. There have been unscrupulous individuals that have been known to pose as evangelicals, sales persons, etc., with criminal intents. Many more times than not, to burglarize someone's house. If one of Jehovah’s Witnesses with criminal intents decided to exploit the door-to-door ministry as a means to commit a crime, they're not going to meet with the service group. If they did, they'd be accompanied by other publishers in a car-group and/or accompanied by another publisher while on a person's doorstep. Such an environment would prevent a person from committing a crime. If a person wants to exploit the door-to-door ministry to commit a crime, they won't meet with the service group and there's nothing Jehovah's Witnesses could do to prevent such a thing. Even if a person is disfellowshipped, they can still go door-to-door. They can't meet with the service group, but nothing can prevent them from going door-to-door and presenting the Bible, Bible-based literature or a box of girl scout cookies.

    “...and always inform the congregation if a convicted or confessed molester is meeting with them."

    The 10/01/2012 BOE states the following; "At the same time that parents are warned about an individual, it would be appropriate for the elders to inform the individual that parents in the congregation will be discreetly informed." There are authorized channels to inform others about something of this nature.

    http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lwL4KnN1LtH&b=4951419&ct=6833419

    Methodist Church: Church Participation by a Registered Child Sex Offender - Adopted in 2004

    What's stated in the 10/01/2012 BOE obviously applies to anyone on the national sex-offender registry. Divulging this type of information into the congregation through an unauthorized channel can result in a defamation lawsuit.

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    I'm trying to decide if "Prime" (lol) is more offended at criticisms of judicial mishandling, or that a woman dares level the criticism.

  • whathappened
    whathappened

    Children need our protection. Everyone needs to think of the children first.

    You do know who Barbara Anderson is, don't you? She has a right to say anything she pleases. She has devoted her self to this issue and most people here hold her in very high esteem.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    You are so full of it, Prime.

    It's simple. If an elder suspects abuse, report to the secular authorities, regardless of the jurisdiction. It doesn't matter if it is hearsay. All the elder has to do is report what he has seen and heard. The police do the investigating.

    Police have special powers of investigation not available to private citizens. In the case of child abusers it is important to collect evidence before the abuser is alerted that they are being investigated. Elders, if they do their own investigation before or in tandem with a police investigation, (say, for example calling the person in for a Judicial Committee meeting) might inadvertently tip off the perpetrator and frustrate the investigation.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    More and more states are requiring clergy to notify law enforcement immediately. The Witness stance echoes the Roman church before Luther. We have separation of church and sy state. It is NEVER defamation to report in good faith to approprIate authorities. NEVER. Also, truth is always an absolute defense to defamstion. The elders need to hire their own personal lawyers. They are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Common law emerged in England b/c of the misuse of church jurisdiction. The First Amend ment never applies to crimes of universal applicability with no intent to discriminate against a religion. The WT lawyers are thrusting themselves where they should not be. First, they have ethical responsibilities to disclose that the WT"s interests run counter to the elders liability.Breaking the law is a crime.

    Let the lawyers stop hiding behind false legal advice.A local lawyer can finthe law in a few minutes. Let them stop abusing religious freedom. No one id stopping them from elevating pedophiles to Jesus' status. The law mandates reporting. It does not say to call Bethel.

  • Retrovirus
    Retrovirus

    From a "worldly" perspective

    If a person wants to exploit the door-to-door ministry to commit a crime, they won't meet with the service group

    This is nonsense. If a paedophile wanted a safe cover to seek out children alone in the house, what would be better? He/She wouldn't need to assault or groom them right away, but could return at any time.

    Even if a person is disfellowshipped, they can still go door-to-door.

    Of course they can, but not as "ministers" of the jw religion.

    @Odrade, yes, that was the first thing I noticed too. "This woman" indeed

    Retro

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    NIV Mathew 18:6-9

    Causing to Stumble

    6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

    Would it be better to tie a millstone around a alleged perpetrator's neck? I feel that Barbara Anderson's idea(s) is simple, humane, respects both the rights of the alleged perpetrator and victim, and allows a superior authority with better resources to perform their investigation with minimal outside interference.

    When quoting Scriptures at least get the context right of Mt 22:21 of following governent's laws that are not contray to God's commandments. The WTBTS is known to not follow laws (e.g., State of Victoria's Child Protection Laws in Australia) of governments in the countries that they operate.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    so, primey, who are you, anyway?

  • baltar447
    baltar447

    This is why I miss post counts...

  • watson
    watson

    Prime and the WT are ok with doing the minimum required.

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