Posts by Pronger

11

How To Survive The International Conventions

by SYN in

it's that time of year again!.

yes, you guessed it, it's time for the beloved international conventions for 2003!.

would you like to go to an international convention?

Pronger

Too bad the International Convention isn't being held in Bagdad, Iraq this year.

7

Making peace with God...

by Pronger in

i was disfellowshipped in 1996 for "fornication".

this disfellowshipping literally crushed me as i felt i was fully repentant at the time.

i was the one who approached the elders to confess.

I was disfellowshipped in 1996 for "fornication". This disfellowshipping literally crushed me as I felt I was fully repentant at the time. I was the one who approached the elders to confess. I'm not here to criticize those who made the decision. I no longer care about that. While my parents refuse to shun me, the rest of my family till this day continues to shun me. The hurt from this has faded as well.

The years following my disfellowshipping what creeped into my heart was a hatred for God. I cursed his name and swore never to worship him again. What I saw was a deity that continued to let people die needlessly and suffer. When the tragedy of September 11, 2001 occured, I became enraged. I refused to believe that a loving God would allow such acts to occur, that such evil people were free to roam the planet slaughtering others in the name of God. On May 5, 2001 I married the love of my life. On June 27. 2002, my first child was born. Again this further strengthened my resolve against God. I saw God as a liar, for in the nearly 2000 years since Jesus died, his promise at Revelations 21:4 has gone unfulfilled. As a father I knew that if I was all powerful, I would do everything to keep my son from experiencing pain and eventually death.

Yesterday, January 16th my wife's grandfather was buried. He was a great man. He gave freely asking for nothing in return. If anyone needed help, he would provide. He also was a Christian. In the years before his death, I always smirked how foolish anyone was that put faith in religion. That they were only deceiving themselves in believing in a loving God. I also drew from my experiences growing up. Many Jehovah's Witnesses I knew were more concerned about saving their own neck rather than just worshipping God out of love. My wife's grandfather, I knew truly worshipped God out of love, but I always felt that his time and energy of worship would be better directed elsewhere. What happened yesterday made me re-evaluate my thoughts, my hatred for God.

The midwestern part of the United States yesterday was gloomy, there was snow in the air. As I sat in church waiting for the services to start, I looked around and laughed to myself about how Jehovah's Witnesses think that such a place was part of Christendom, false worshippers of God. Of how God would never have anything to do with the people who worship inside such a building.

I saw many people there who came to pay their respect for my wife's grandfather. I saw their grief and in my heart anger rose up again repeating many thoughts I've had over the last few years. To myself I cursed God again for allowing such sorrow. As the service started something began to change in me. I noticed a light shining through the stained glass window of the church to my left. It was the sun. On such a gloomy day as it was, the clouds broke for a few minutes and the light brightened the room. I know there was nothing miraculous about it, but I saw the reactions of others around. It brought many smiles and tears of joy. Almost as if God himself parted the clouds to allow the sun to shine through and help lift the hearts of so many in sorrow. It was quite touching to me, but I quickly focused back on the service at hand. It was difficult to sit through, I fought back the tears. The pastor in conclusion mentioned a scripture I always held dear. He quoted part of Matthew 25:21 in reference to my wife's late grandfather... He said that after death in reflection of this man's life God would say to him... "Well done, good and faithful servant". I always had yearned to hear of such approval from God, but to never have I met someone as my wife's grandfather, someone who it so well applies. He was not a perfect man, but I have never met someone so loving. I knew it to be true that God would say such words to him. I felt my resolve against God weakening, I began to feel his love again yet in my stubbornness I wouldn't let things go.

There was a scripture I wanted to share with my wife to help comfort her but hadn't done so as yet. I had never expressed to her the anger I felt towards God. I had never told anyone except God. On the drive home, I finally let go. I told her how much I hated God. How he failed in his promise. How he if he was loving he would have never let anything evil happen to begin with. She quickly corrected me saying that without the pain and the loss we would never truly appreciate the good. Just like how some who are wealthy do not appreciate what they have. Instead they are always looking for something better. And how those who are poor appreciate even the smallest of gifts. She is not a religious woman in that she doesn't study the bible or spend time at church, so to myself I dismissed what she was saying reflecting on the failed promise of Revelations 21:4.

When we arrived at home, I showed her the scripture I had wanted to for several days. Ecclesiastes 7:1. "A good name is better than fine perfume, and the day of death better than the day of birth." As I was explaining to her what this meant and how it applied to her grandfather my attention was drawn to the scriptures immediately following. My eyes were opened, my anger and hatred for God being sucked out of me. I saw what my wife said to be true. It was as if God, for the first time in my life, spoke to me answering all the criticism and hate I felt for him.

Ecclesiastes 7:2-4, 8-12

2 It is better to go to a house of mourning
than to go to a house of feasting,
for death is the destiny of every man;
the living should take this to heart.
3 Sorrow is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.
4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure.
8 The end of a matter is better than its beginning,
and patience is better than pride.
9 Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit,
for anger resides in the lap of fools.

10 Do not say, "Why were the old days better than these?"
For it is not wise to ask such questions.

11 Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing
and benefits those who see the sun.
12 Wisdom is a shelter
as money is a shelter,
but the advantage of knowledge is this:
that wisdom preserves the life of its possessor.

Shocked, I turned to Matthew Henry's Commentary hoping to find that I was just interpreting these scriptures incorrectly. As you can see, I am capable of being very stubborn and didn't want to let go of my hate. What I found though I could not deny. I will not post everything that I read, but instead provide a link to it so that any who wish may read it.

http://www.ccel.org/h/henry/mhc2/MHC21007.HTM

For the first time in many years, in all honesty my life, I felt touched by God, that he understood what I had felt but that there was a reason that it must be this way. I cannot believe what happened yesterday was of mere coincidence. I used to ridicule others who had said that at some time in their life God reached out to them. I will never do this again. I think to the words my wife said in recent days, that there is a reason things happen. Maybe we don't recognize it at the time, but some day we will.

In death I thank my grandfather by marriage. I thank him for all the lives he touched. I thank him that even in death, he became a bridge between myself and God. For this I will be eternally grateful. I wish he could hear my voice now. I wish that he knew what he had done.

God's words in Ecclesiastes chapter 7 became true for me. In sorrow I have become a better person.

Matt

22

Will they ever say "Peace and Security"?

by JH in

with all the trouble around the world, do you think that one day we will hear "peace and security".

we heard this so often when we were in the jw's, but no one knew how it could happen.

i don't see any peace in the horizon.

Pronger

Joseph is correct regarding what the saying of "Peace and Security" really means. The Watchtower Society twists scripture to support their fear tactics. Anytime a government leader talks of peace or security, it has JWs digging deeper in their beliefs as they fear that this time could be it. It has little to do with government leaders standing up and announcing the end of war, as that has been done already in history.

Here is what Matthew Henry had to say regarding 1 Thess 5:3. I regard him as a much better source for Bible commentary than the WTS.

"The righteous God will bring ruin upon his and his people's enemies; and this their destruction, as it will be total and final, so, 1. It will be sudden. It will overtake them, and fall upon them, in the midst of their carnal security and jollity, when they say in their hearts, Peace and safety, when they dream of felicity and please themselves with vain amusements of their fancies or their senses, and think not of it,as travail cometh upon a woman with child, at the set time indeed, but not perhaps just then expected, nor greatly feared. 2. It will be unavoidable destruction too: They shall not escape; they shall in no wise escape. There will be no means possible for them to avoid the terror nor the punishment of that day. There will be no place where the workers of iniquity shall be able to hide themselves, no shelter from the storm, nor shadow from the burning heat that shall consume the wicked."

22

Will they ever say "Peace and Security"?

by JH in

with all the trouble around the world, do you think that one day we will hear "peace and security".

we heard this so often when we were in the jw's, but no one knew how it could happen.

i don't see any peace in the horizon.

Pronger

Well most Bible translations say "peace and safety" not "peace and security".

21

A Picture of the Universe at 300,000 Years Old

by D wiltshire in

.

for those who are interested here is a picture of the universe at around 300,000 years old.. this is concidered the discovery of the century (1992).. http://www.lbl.gov/lbl-pid/george-smoot.html.

there is of coarse much written about this discovery "wrinkles in time" by george smoot himself is a very good book on the subject.

Pronger

Sentinel said:

"how in the world do they ever come up with this stuff? I mean, if this is the universe, then what's on the outside of this elongated "egg"? "

Well Sentinel, why don't you bother reading the text associated with that image before making an ass of yourself?

From the article associated with the image:

"Using Galactic coordinates, the map shows the plane of the Milky Way galaxy horizontally and the center of our galaxy at its center."

10

JWs & Noah's Flood -- A great laugh...

by Pronger in

proof according to jws that the flood really happened.

http://jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=739a65ad661650f6fd292a35392f96ae&threadid=5681

additionally the diversity of the human genome would have been.

Pronger

Proof according to JWs that the flood really happened.

http://jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=739a65ad661650f6fd292a35392f96ae&threadid=5681

Additionally the diversity of the Human Genome would have been
more so than it is today,there is a distinct possibility that
we could have people with spots and stripes ,not a result of
stretchmarks or freckles but bonified adptive coloration patterns
but that would have skewed the world as we know it so much that
the world we know today would not be recognizable.

3

To You Know - Trinity Doctrine

by Pronger in

while i know the wts has published pamphlets on the trinity doctrine, i thought i'd draw your attention to a book written by a secular source regarding the history of the arian controversy.

i recently read this book and thoroughly enjoyed it.

to summarize the events, it shows how the original catholic church was divided into two camps; those that believed jesus was god incarnate, and those who believed that jesus was god's first creation.

Pronger

You Know,

While I know the WTS has published pamphlets on the Trinity doctrine, I thought I'd draw your attention to a book written by a secular source regarding the history of the Arian Controversy. I recently read this book and thoroughly enjoyed it. To summarize the events, it shows how the original Catholic church was divided into two camps; those that believed Jesus was God incarnate, and those who believed that Jesus was God's first creation.

What I found captivating was how the trinitarians led by Athanasius used violent tactics and Roman Emperors to eventually wipe out Arian and other like minded individuals who disavowed the notion that Jesus was God.

This book is of a secular historical nature and does not analyze the particular religious beliefs of both sides, but does point out how trinitarians blatantly attempted to distort the nature of Jesus by adding non-biblical words to their proposed creed at the Council of Nicene.

I think you or anyone intrested in the Arian Controversy for that matter would enjoy this treatise on the subject.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0156013150/qid=1030428673/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/103-1883577-0328605?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

DISCLAIMER: The author is non-Christian so he does not attempt to take sides on the issue.

14

JWs blame everything on demons...

by Pronger in

i cannot believe how credulous many jws are regarding the religions near obsession with supernatural beings.

apparently young kids misbehaving is a result of demons.

what irritates me the most is that this woman was more concerned with an alleged person with a "dangerous mind" placing the tract she left back on the car, than the fact that she left two children alone in a parked car.

Pronger

I cannot believe how credulous many JWs are regarding the religions near obsession with supernatural beings. Apparently young kids misbehaving is a result of demons.

What irritates me the most is that this woman was more concerned with an alleged person with a "dangerous mind" placing the tract she left back on the car, than the fact that she left two children alone in a parked car. This is the epitome of a warped brain.

http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?s=c2d0807c02fe26355439f0668ebf5905&threadid=4631&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

I was out in service one day, by myself and my four kids. We were working some new territory and I was still somewhat new to the whole work... I came to a trailer that had "No soliciting". I left two kids in the car and had two with me and I thought out loud to one of them: "We're not trying to sell something, but I'm still not sure if we're supposed to knock or not..." I decided to leave a tract and ask someone later (it was a three time territory so I could go back to it soon).
That was the last house on the street, so I drove to the next street to work the last 5 houses. The one street was up a somewhat steep hill from the other street and it was more than a few strides from one to the other... Again, I left two kids in the car while I got the houses.
When I got to the last house I FROZE. I was overcome by an INTENSE drive to get back to the car. I could still see the car but I was uncomfortable with having left them alone, and they were parked in front of a Real estate business, so no people was out milling around or anything.
So, I wrote it off to being worried for having left them alone...
I got back to the car, opened the door, sat down and yelled to the two kids to get off the floorboards where they were playing and get their belts on... As I was about to back out and drive away I saw, RIGHT in FRONT of me was that tract that I had left at that trailer.
The kids saw no one and heard no one... The person had to have watched where we went and then walk up the hill and just to give me back the tract.

I SMILED from ear to ear. I was so happy that someone had been so considerate to bring me back the tract instead of throwing it away
jerry later told me to throw the tract away because the person has a dangerous mind to have done something like that, but I wrote it off to him being overly protective. I didn't throw the tract away... I kept invisioning a little old lady walking up the hill on her cane just to return the tract, all the while hoping I'd know to bring her a different one seeing how she already had the one I left. (And I think I have no imagination any more
Then everything bad started happening. The kids were horrendous. even the two "good ones" *G* And I was wracking my brain trying to figure out what the kids' problems were 'cause it was SO unlike them. And then my mind went back to the tract. We were visiting my granny that day and she had me do an errand-- while out I tore that tract into pieces and threw them away at Wal-mart
Whether anything had to do with anything doesn't really concern me-- but it was definitely a learning experience to say the least! I no longer work territory alone with all four; I no longer question my hubby when he says do something (well, usually