Posts by Dazed

22

RESEARCH ON TORTURE STAKE vs. CROSS

by Nanoprobe in

sarah .

thank you for posting this information.

everyone else: it's 31 pages, print it out it's worth the read.

Dazed

I applaud your research, a very well thought out and informative dissertation. However, I have a question or two of curiosity.

If the torture stake WAS a cross, would it change the purpose of Jesus' death, or mankind's guaranteed salvation?

If the cross WAS a torture stake, would it change the purpose of Jesus' death, or mankind's guaranteed salvation?

Oh, and one more question, what was the literal translation given at the beginning of your document?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but if you wish to criticize JW's, or any religion for that matter, the subject of contention should be, in fact, contentious. Who cares if Jesus died strapped to a VW bug, he still died for our sins (or whatever wording you wish to insert at this point that has the same meaning), and the "dubs" agree in that respect.

Peace.

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

15

GOOD NEWS

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of god!

all scriptures below are from the "literal translation of the holy bible" (go here for information about this bible translation: http://www.kconline.com/paul/litv/litv.htm ).

you can see clearly below that the watchtower society is not teaching the true gospel of christ:.

Dazed

Um...what?

I guess an individual's view depends on their belief in the bible being inspired and their belief that God exists. Personally, I believe that Jesus died for our sins, because I believe he was the son of God. If Jesus wasn't here to die for our sins, the entire bible, let alone the new testament, is worthless. Not because it doesn't provide valuable insight, but because the whole purpose of the bible is God's right of sovereignty over his creation, regardless of which christian denomination you affiliate with (in other words, a trinity discussion wouldn't apply, but a basic belief in the tenets of christianity would be necessary, including, but not limited to, the fact that Jesus did in fact, as he himself said, die for the sinfulness of mankind). This doesn't imply that he died because you like to look at Playboy (or whatever) but that he died for the original sin, a perfect life for a perfect life. Very old testament to be sure, but to believe that the bible is fairytale is to believe that Snow White is truly living happily ever after.

It is in man's inherit nature, even before Jesus came on the scene, to be kind and loving towards one another. That concept, in and of itself, could lead into a lengthy discussion of human psychology. It is similar to our concept of eternity. Would we have even thought of eternity if God hadn't put it in our hearts to think so? Again, an entirely philosophical discussion, but still thought provoking. Since the concept of eternity and infinity are so abstract, to believe we came up with those ideas on our own seems ludicrous to me.

In a sense, Jesus did die for us, but not for our sins.

hmmm.....

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

15

GOOD NEWS

by UnDisfellowshipped in

the gospel of salvation -- the good news of god!

all scriptures below are from the "literal translation of the holy bible" (go here for information about this bible translation: http://www.kconline.com/paul/litv/litv.htm ).

you can see clearly below that the watchtower society is not teaching the true gospel of christ:.

Dazed

In re: Romans 3:10, who then, are the "just" ones spoken of in Acts 24:15, or is just not equivalent to righteous? The greek word used here is dikiaos, infering innocent or holy, righteous. That from the KJV with Strong's numbers.

Also, what exactly is the difference between these phrases:

"Jesus provided a ransom sacrifice for all mankind, that they may live, even though they sin"

and

"Jesus died for our sins, so we may live, even though we sin"

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

11

How do JW's define god in reference to Jesus?

by pseudoxristos in

in a group on yahoo, i'm involved in a discussion about the deity of jesus.

i've asked the witnesses there to give a specific definition of the word god (in reference to jesus) in john 1:1. so far they have not responded.

i was wondering if any current jws or or former jws here could give me a the proper watchtower definition/view.

Dazed

But...I've even read scholarly arguments against Jesus being the Archangel Michael, lol.

You'd think God would make it just a little easier for the less "faithful and descreet", eh?

27

Legal question

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i work in a business that sometimes has teenagers purchasing or renting items from us.

when they do so, we have to have a parent or legal guardian make the arrangements or sign any binding agreements.

if we didn't, nothing would be worth the paper it was written on, as people under 18 can not enter into a legal arrangement on their own.. .

Dazed

Well, I do believe I understood your initial question. The answer is, depending on the state you entered into the agreement in, that no, a person under the age of (insert your state's guideline here) can NOT be held liable for a legal contract entered into unless that contract is ratified by parties separate to and over the legal age required in your state with guardianship over the assumed minor (this is assuming you live in the US of course).

To add clarification though, it would need to be determined if baptism is considered a "legal and binding" contract, or merely a personal one. For instance, in the state of California, a minor (under 18) could be held liable for a verbal or written agreement with another minor, but not with an adult. However, if that same minor made a verbal agreement with God to give 10% of everything they earned to God, and didn't, there is no way they could be held legally liable.

My question was, what's the point? If you did get DF'd, why would you seek a legal resolution to the ruling? If you don't agree with the governing body which gave the original ruling, and that self-same governing body would be required to revoke the ruling, how much more weight would you give them for the revokation than the original ruling? Seems a moot point, and I'm wondering why someone would even ask the question.

BTW, you are very special...

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

Almost forgot...I'm still curious if you have any documentation of the claim that this has been done in the past, in court, or if this is just hearsay. Thanks.

Edited by - dazed on 7 September 2002 2:27:3

16

"Free" Home Bible Studies

by Farkel in

this phrase has been part of the watchtower landscape since i can remember, so that spans a half-century.

dubs say it like it really means something special.. ever know any other christian faith that actually charged for home bible studies?

ever know any other christian faith that charged for books for that free home bible study(tm)?.

Dazed

Ah, beautiful, semantics and asthetics again...totally beside the point, but....

I have a VERY eclectic taste in music, and a little schooling, so to be precise, punk rock IS music. They use musical instruments and they (attempt to) play chords. Hence, music. If you don't like their music, your loss. But it's still music. Unfortunately, by my own argument, this also means that Twisted Sister played music, and believe me, that pains me.

Seriously though, his first question when he saw me, ripped plaid pants and Doc Martin's and pierced everything, he said "Do you like music". I said "f@$# yeah, black flag, dead kennedy's, the pistols and s#@t".

27

Legal question

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i work in a business that sometimes has teenagers purchasing or renting items from us.

when they do so, we have to have a parent or legal guardian make the arrangements or sign any binding agreements.

if we didn't, nothing would be worth the paper it was written on, as people under 18 can not enter into a legal arrangement on their own.. .

Dazed

First of all, if you don't agree with what they teach, what difference does it make if you are DF'd or not? Not associating with bad influences actually IS a bible scripture, so why would you want to associate with a "cult"?

Secondly, do you have any documentation backing up the claim that the courts supported un-disfellowshipping someone, if that is in fact what you are claiming?

I'm not asking to be argumentative, but I like to have proof, not speculation or word-of-mouth. That's why I'm here...

6

I had my very first...

by SPAZnik in

...tarot card reading when i wuz away this long weekend.

i think bcuz of dub conditioning .

i half expected some kinda creepy .

Dazed

I had one done when I was 20. I wasn't even religious, let alone with JW's at the time. Before the person read my cards, she told me to concentrate on the person I love the most in my life. I was totally thinking of my girlfriend, even though I was married (separated). It was pretty amazing. She told me I was going to be successful and rich and all this other stuff. Well, I broke up with my girlfriend, went back to my wife. I ended up divorced, broke, and in a miserable relationship with another psycho. Makes me wonder, "What if....?"

Dazed...and thoroughly confused

16

"Free" Home Bible Studies

by Farkel in

this phrase has been part of the watchtower landscape since i can remember, so that spans a half-century.

dubs say it like it really means something special.. ever know any other christian faith that actually charged for home bible studies?

ever know any other christian faith that charged for books for that free home bible study(tm)?.

Dazed

When I was 16 (1986) I went to a Babtist tent revival. It was a very moving experience at that time of my life. Even though now I understand that due to the experiences I had up to that point and where I was living at the time, what I was told was "being filled with the holy spirit" was actually being overcome with guilt and a desire to be loved by someone, especially someone like God. Anyway, the person responsible for getting me involved in that particular event was a Baptist minister, a musician, who knew I had a fondness for music (Dead Kennedy's and Black Flag, but hey, it WAS music) and invited me in.

Afterwards, I was offered the opportunity to have 1 on 1 study with him, provided my parents could contribute nominal "donations" to the church. I wasn't even living with my parents, and I explained that to him. He said if my situation changed where I could make "contributions" to the church, he would be happy to help me along in my study of Jesus.

So, whether or not ALL churches "charge" for salvation, some do. Even the ones that still use Mosaic Law to require tithes. Try getting Jim Baker to give you a personal healing for free. (that was a joke)

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

11

How do JW's define god in reference to Jesus?

by pseudoxristos in

in a group on yahoo, i'm involved in a discussion about the deity of jesus.

i've asked the witnesses there to give a specific definition of the word god (in reference to jesus) in john 1:1. so far they have not responded.

i was wondering if any current jws or or former jws here could give me a the proper watchtower definition/view.

Dazed

Gold, great points, but I'm not sure that is the point of the topic.

Farkel, JW's wouldn't have anything on their mantel silly.

Since this is turning into a trinity discussion, instead of a translation discussion (God vs. "a god"), does believing in the trinity have any effect in reference to salvation? Does the bible, in any scripture, say "thou shalt believe the God and Son and Holy Spirit are One." Simple answer...NO. If that is the case, why have christians (not just JW's and mainstream) been arguing the point for hundreds of years?

Perhaps I should post this on a new topic.

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.