Posts by Dazed

27

Legal question

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i work in a business that sometimes has teenagers purchasing or renting items from us.

when they do so, we have to have a parent or legal guardian make the arrangements or sign any binding agreements.

if we didn't, nothing would be worth the paper it was written on, as people under 18 can not enter into a legal arrangement on their own.. .

Well, I do believe I understood your initial question. The answer is, depending on the state you entered into the agreement in, that no, a person under the age of (insert your state's guideline here) can NOT be held liable for a legal contract entered into unless that contract is ratified by parties separate to and over the legal age required in your state with guardianship over the assumed minor (this is assuming you live in the US of course).

To add clarification though, it would need to be determined if baptism is considered a "legal and binding" contract, or merely a personal one. For instance, in the state of California, a minor (under 18) could be held liable for a verbal or written agreement with another minor, but not with an adult. However, if that same minor made a verbal agreement with God to give 10% of everything they earned to God, and didn't, there is no way they could be held legally liable.

My question was, what's the point? If you did get DF'd, why would you seek a legal resolution to the ruling? If you don't agree with the governing body which gave the original ruling, and that self-same governing body would be required to revoke the ruling, how much more weight would you give them for the revokation than the original ruling? Seems a moot point, and I'm wondering why someone would even ask the question.

BTW, you are very special...

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

Almost forgot...I'm still curious if you have any documentation of the claim that this has been done in the past, in court, or if this is just hearsay. Thanks.

Edited by - dazed on 7 September 2002 2:27:3

16

"Free" Home Bible Studies

by Farkel in

this phrase has been part of the watchtower landscape since i can remember, so that spans a half-century.

dubs say it like it really means something special.. ever know any other christian faith that actually charged for home bible studies?

ever know any other christian faith that charged for books for that free home bible study(tm)?.

Dazed

Ah, beautiful, semantics and asthetics again...totally beside the point, but....

I have a VERY eclectic taste in music, and a little schooling, so to be precise, punk rock IS music. They use musical instruments and they (attempt to) play chords. Hence, music. If you don't like their music, your loss. But it's still music. Unfortunately, by my own argument, this also means that Twisted Sister played music, and believe me, that pains me.

Seriously though, his first question when he saw me, ripped plaid pants and Doc Martin's and pierced everything, he said "Do you like music". I said "f@$# yeah, black flag, dead kennedy's, the pistols and s#@t".

27

Legal question

by kenpodragon in

jw
friends

i work in a business that sometimes has teenagers purchasing or renting items from us.

when they do so, we have to have a parent or legal guardian make the arrangements or sign any binding agreements.

if we didn't, nothing would be worth the paper it was written on, as people under 18 can not enter into a legal arrangement on their own.. .

Dazed

First of all, if you don't agree with what they teach, what difference does it make if you are DF'd or not? Not associating with bad influences actually IS a bible scripture, so why would you want to associate with a "cult"?

Secondly, do you have any documentation backing up the claim that the courts supported un-disfellowshipping someone, if that is in fact what you are claiming?

I'm not asking to be argumentative, but I like to have proof, not speculation or word-of-mouth. That's why I'm here...

6

I had my very first...

by SPAZnik in

...tarot card reading when i wuz away this long weekend.

i think bcuz of dub conditioning .

i half expected some kinda creepy .

Dazed

I had one done when I was 20. I wasn't even religious, let alone with JW's at the time. Before the person read my cards, she told me to concentrate on the person I love the most in my life. I was totally thinking of my girlfriend, even though I was married (separated). It was pretty amazing. She told me I was going to be successful and rich and all this other stuff. Well, I broke up with my girlfriend, went back to my wife. I ended up divorced, broke, and in a miserable relationship with another psycho. Makes me wonder, "What if....?"

Dazed...and thoroughly confused

16

"Free" Home Bible Studies

by Farkel in

this phrase has been part of the watchtower landscape since i can remember, so that spans a half-century.

dubs say it like it really means something special.. ever know any other christian faith that actually charged for home bible studies?

ever know any other christian faith that charged for books for that free home bible study(tm)?.

Dazed

When I was 16 (1986) I went to a Babtist tent revival. It was a very moving experience at that time of my life. Even though now I understand that due to the experiences I had up to that point and where I was living at the time, what I was told was "being filled with the holy spirit" was actually being overcome with guilt and a desire to be loved by someone, especially someone like God. Anyway, the person responsible for getting me involved in that particular event was a Baptist minister, a musician, who knew I had a fondness for music (Dead Kennedy's and Black Flag, but hey, it WAS music) and invited me in.

Afterwards, I was offered the opportunity to have 1 on 1 study with him, provided my parents could contribute nominal "donations" to the church. I wasn't even living with my parents, and I explained that to him. He said if my situation changed where I could make "contributions" to the church, he would be happy to help me along in my study of Jesus.

So, whether or not ALL churches "charge" for salvation, some do. Even the ones that still use Mosaic Law to require tithes. Try getting Jim Baker to give you a personal healing for free. (that was a joke)

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

11

How do JW's define god in reference to Jesus?

by pseudoxristos in

in a group on yahoo, i'm involved in a discussion about the deity of jesus.

i've asked the witnesses there to give a specific definition of the word god (in reference to jesus) in john 1:1. so far they have not responded.

i was wondering if any current jws or or former jws here could give me a the proper watchtower definition/view.

Dazed

Gold, great points, but I'm not sure that is the point of the topic.

Farkel, JW's wouldn't have anything on their mantel silly.

Since this is turning into a trinity discussion, instead of a translation discussion (God vs. "a god"), does believing in the trinity have any effect in reference to salvation? Does the bible, in any scripture, say "thou shalt believe the God and Son and Holy Spirit are One." Simple answer...NO. If that is the case, why have christians (not just JW's and mainstream) been arguing the point for hundreds of years?

Perhaps I should post this on a new topic.

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

11

How do JW's define god in reference to Jesus?

by pseudoxristos in

in a group on yahoo, i'm involved in a discussion about the deity of jesus.

i've asked the witnesses there to give a specific definition of the word god (in reference to jesus) in john 1:1. so far they have not responded.

i was wondering if any current jws or or former jws here could give me a the proper watchtower definition/view.

Dazed

The problem with that line of reasoning traveler is that you assume there can only be true gods and false gods. Using "god" as an adjective or descriptive term doesn't require that the person (or thing) being described be "true" or "false", it only describes their abilities. Check the definition of "god" in Webster's, it doesn't have to mean only 1 thing.

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

11

How do JW's define god in reference to Jesus?

by pseudoxristos in

in a group on yahoo, i'm involved in a discussion about the deity of jesus.

i've asked the witnesses there to give a specific definition of the word god (in reference to jesus) in john 1:1. so far they have not responded.

i was wondering if any current jws or or former jws here could give me a the proper watchtower definition/view.

Dazed

Heathen was sort of right. Jesus and Satan would both be considered gods according to their viewpoint, as well as the higher ranking angels. However, I don't believe Dee Snyder or Harrison Ford are considered gods, but I haven't read the most recent Watchtower. :o)

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

20

What Did The Angels Know?

by Dutchie in

revelation 12: 9 of the new world translation, says: .

so down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called devil and satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth, he was hurled down to the earth and his angels were hurled down with him.".

it has always been interesting to me that when satan rebelled a lot of the angels went along with him in his rebellion.

Dazed

Crazy, compare directly

NWT: "So down the great dragon was hurled, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth, and his angels were hurled down with him."

KJV: "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Pretty much the same.

Dazed...and thoroughly confused.

43

Hurled to the Earth - Why?!?

by Mister 8iggs in

basically, this is my take on it.

this isn't intended to start a flame war between believer's and non-believer's of god.. god creates angels.

god creates man.

Dazed

Luke 10:18 "I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightning from heaven." Apparently Jesus didn't have to wait until 1914.

I think what Jesus was doing was making a prediction, sort of like an "I can see it all now..." sort of thing.

God is supposed to love us like he is our father, but yet he has no tolerance

LyinEyes, it's fairly apparent that you have some serious pent-up hostility, but aside from that, God is VERY tolerant. Look at the way the world is today. I don't see fire raining down and destroying everything wicked. Vast amounts of time and transgression occured before God took action, and ample warning was given to those sinning. Noah and his sons tried to explain to the people of the time what Jehovah was planning to do, to convince them to come with them, but no one would listen. Is that Jehovah's fault? You continuously teach your children not to kill, and then one kills someone and is sentenced to life in prison, is that your fault?

To continue your child-rearing analogy, a parent will only put up with so much before they discipline their children. It may seem harsh to say you'd kill one of your kids for their disobedience, but it's not in your power to offer them everlasting life, or the blessings leading a good life can bring. Jehovah's form of discipline is always righteous, and in most cases an in-depth study bears that out. In the cases where it's not so obvious, I'm willing to give God the benefit of the doubt. He does the same for me.

I'll admit that sometimes bible accounts give me the heebie-jeebies, but remember, what you're reading is often written hundreds of years after the fact by a man interpretting messages from God (assuming you believe divine inspiration). Perhaps God didn't find it necessary to explain in great detail how long wickedness existed or the true state of men's hearts before he acted. Kind of like trying to explain to your kids every single rule or discipline you dish out in your house. I have kids too, and I try to be as specific as possible, but sometimes you just need them to get the point not to do something or they have to pay the price.

Edited by - dazed on 5 September 2002 19:41:23