Posts by shadow

19

Blood recycling machine bought by JW community

by Wallflower in

accidently came across this news article from the scunthorpe telegraph :.

http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=56019&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=56018&contentpk=9562850.

'recycling' could cut blood shortage .

shadow

Actually, it is now permissible for blood to be taken to another location, treated, returned to the patient's location and reinfused.

6

governing body or Governing Body?

by shadow in

jw
friends

is this quotation indicative of the opinion that the gb have of themselves?

or is this just a stupid question?

anyone have any actual information on why they do this?

shadow

Blondie,

Hmmmhh, I did not know that.

I wonder what they were thinking here:

***

w75 1/15 pp. 41-42 Jehovah?s Witnesses Move Ahead in Canada ***

The article accompanying the headline explained: "As traditional religions slowly decline, their churches and temples getting emptier all the time, Jehovah?s Witnesses are experiencing increased membership and are even getting former church buildings and other new facilities in which to gather their new members."

With an English Protestant and a French Catholic background, Canada was once a very religious country. Many still sincerely attend church services and try to practice their religion. But times have changed.

Today even outspoken advocates of such things as "abortion on demand" may continue as church members in good standing. The steady decline of religion?s influence in Canada is evident from such headlines as "Shortage of Priests Called ?Panic?" and "Sunday Schools Declining."

Jehovah?s witnesses, on the other hand, have steadily moved ahead. The Witnesses began their work of Bible teaching here in the 1880?s. At the time they wondered how it would be possible to reach all the people in this massive country, the second-largest in land area in the world. They went to work with diligence and conviction, and by 1914 there were 1,150 Witnesses busy proclaiming Bible truth to their neighbors.

The next thirty years saw a remarkable 690-percent increase in the number of Kingdom proclaimers, with 9,085 reporting activity in 1944. During the three decades since then Jehovah?s witnesses have steadily moved ahead in Canada. By 1974 they reached a peak of 58,542. That means that in just sixty years Canadian Witnesses have grown by 4990 percent.

6

governing body or Governing Body?

by shadow in

jw
friends

is this quotation indicative of the opinion that the gb have of themselves?

or is this just a stupid question?

anyone have any actual information on why they do this?

shadow

Yes, it could just be an attempt at correct grammar, but then why make the distinction between modern and first-century? Any grammar experts here?

6

governing body or Governing Body?

by shadow in

jw
friends

is this quotation indicative of the opinion that the gb have of themselves?

or is this just a stupid question?

anyone have any actual information on why they do this?

shadow

Is this quotation indicative of the opinion that the GB have of themselves? Or is this just a stupid question? Anyone have any actual information on why they do this?

*** w00 10/1 p. 12 Bible - Profitable and Pleasurable ***

A member of the first-century governing body wrote to his brothers: ?If any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep on asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching; and it will be given him. But let him keep on asking in faith, not doubting at all.? (James 1:5, 6) The modern-day Governing Body constantly exhorts us to engage in prayerful Bible reading

There was a change around 1970:

*** w68 9/1 p. 538 What It Means to Be Honest ***

To be honest means, among other things, to be truthful in one?s speech. In the strongest of terms the Bible condemns the practice of lying. Thus Satan the Devil is shown to be the original liar. (John 8:44) How seriously God views lying can be seen from what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. They were immediately stricken dead by God?s power because they lied to the apostle Peter, a member of the Christian congregation?s governing body. Their punishment would seem to indicate that Jehovah views especially seriously any lying or misrepresentation practiced toward those having the right to know the facts because of having positions of oversight in the Christian congregation, such as the traveling representatives of the governing body today.?Acts 5:1-11.

*** w71 12/15 A Governing Body as Different from a Legal Corporation ***

According to a Resolution adopted by the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses at its meeting on , the chairmanship of the Governing Body should rotate annually in alphabetical order according to the last name of each member.

There are many WT articles condemning the use of titles:

*** w01 6/1 pp. 14-15 ?If God Is for Us, Who Will Be Against Us?? ***

11 They are organized in the manner of the first-century Christian congregation. Jesus set out the principle: ?Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ?leaders,? for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister.? (Matthew 23:8-11) A congregation of brothers precludes having a proud clergy class that honors itself with high-sounding titles and elevates itself above a laity. (Job 32:21, 22) Those shepherding the flock of God are told to do so ?not under compulsion, but willingly; neither for love of dishonest gain, but eagerly; neither as lording it over those who are God?s inheritance, but becoming examples to the flock.? (1 Peter 5:2, 3) Genuine Christian shepherds refrain from trying to make themselves masters over the faith of others. As fellow workers in God?s service, they simply strive to set a fine example.?2 Corinthians 1:24.

*** w00 6/15 pp. 17-19 ?All You Are Brothers? ***

?All You Are Brothers?

?Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers.??MATTHEW 23:8.

?WHO deserves more honor, a missionary or a Bethelite?? a Christian woman in an Oriental country innocently asked a missionary from . She wanted to know who should be respected more, a missionary from another country or a local minister serving in the branch office of the Watch Tower Society. That innocent question, reflecting a class-conscious culture, took the missionary by surprise. The question of who is greater, however, stems from a desire to know where people stand in the ranks of power and influence.

2 This concern is by no means new. Even Jesus? disciples had an ongoing argument about who was the greatest. (Matthew 20:20-24; Mark 9:33-37; Luke 22:24-27) They too came from a rather class-conscious culture, that of first-century Judaism. With such a society in mind, Jesus counseled his disciples: ?Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers.? (Matthew 23:8) A religious title such as ?Rabbi,? which means ?Teacher,? ?tends to engender pride and a sense of superiority in those who obtain it, and envy and a sense of inferiority in those who do not; and the whole spirit and tendency of it is contrary to the ?simplicity that is in Christ,?? noted the Bible scholar Albert Barnes. Indeed, Christians refrain from addressing overseers among them as ?Elder So-and-so,? using the word ?elder? as a flattering title. (Job 32:21, 22) On the other hand, elders living up to the spirit of Jesus? counsel honor other members of the congregation, just as Jehovah honors loyal worshipers and Jesus Christ honors loyal followers.

This does not seem to apply to GB. Who decides on this language? Is this an indication of their opinion of themselves? Anyone ever question this?

*** w01 1/15 p. 11 Jehovah?s Witnesses?Moving Forward With Firm Conviction! ***

The annual meeting also included a stirring talk given by Governing Body member David Splane on the yeartext for the year 2001

*** w01 1/1 p. 27 Serving Whole-Souled in Spite of Trials ***

Karl Klein, who serves as a member of the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses, and his wife, Margaret, visited us while they were on vacation some years ago.

*** w01 1/15 p. 10 Jehovah?s Witnesses?Moving Forward With Firm Conviction! ***

In his opening remarks, the chairman, John E. Barr, a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 1/15 p. 11 Jehovah?s Witnesses?Moving Forward With Firm Conviction! ***

Daniel Sydlik, a member of the Governing Body , gave an absorbing talk.

*** w01 2/1 p. 22 You Can Cope With Discouragement! ***

Nathan H. Knorr, who served as a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 5/1 p. 18 Maintain Your Joy in Jehovah?s Service ***

. N. H. Knorr, who served as a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 5/1 pp. 24-25 Pressing On in Jehovah?s Way Is Our Strength and Joy ***

Carey W. Barber, now a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 5/1 p. 31 ?Jehovah Has Been Very Good to Me!? ***

Brother Klein continued to work as a member of the writing staff and to serve on the Governing Body

*** w01 6/1 p. 9 Strengthen Your Trust in Jehovah ***

Martin Poetzinger, who later became a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 6/15 p. 24 Be Joyful With the Kingdom Hope! ***

Carey Barber, a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 6/15 p. 24 Be Joyful With the Kingdom Hope! ***

Daniel Sydlik, a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 6/15 p. 26 Be Joyful With the Kingdom Hope! ***

Brother Gerrit Lösch, a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 7/1 p. 31 He ?Endured to the End? ***

Ninety-year-old Brother Swingle did just what he had encouraged others to do. He ?endured to the end.? (Matthew 24:13) Although suffering physically, on Wednesday, March 7, he attended a meeting of the Governing Body of Jehovah?s Witnesses of which he was a member

*** w01 10/1 p. 27 A Life of Surprises in Jehovah?s Service ***

Albert Schroeder, who is now a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 11/15 p. 7 The Translation Appreciated by Millions Worldwide ***

Nathan H. Knorr, a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 12/15 p. 25 A Willing Spirit Brings People to ***

Theodore Jaracz, a graduate of the seventh class of , who now serves as a member of the Governing Body

*** w01 12/15 p. 26 A Willing Spirit Brings People to ***

Guy Pierce, a member of the Governing Body

. . . . . etc., etc.

26

JW Blood Doctrine Dismembered

by AlanF in

i thought some people might like to see a strictly bible-based dismemberment of the jw blood doctrine.

for some introductory material, see the thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/67949/4.ashx.

shadow

I still cannot see why anyone would read into Lev 17 that it was an inadvertent act.

Another scripture that casts considerable doubt on any such presumption is:

Leviticus 11:39-40

39 ??Now in case any beast that is YOURS for food should die, he who touches its dead body will be unclean until the evening. 40 And he who eats any of its dead body will wash his garments, and he must be unclean until the evening; and he who carries off its dead body will wash his garments, and he must be unclean until the evening.

Here again it is mentioned along with at least one deliberate act, unless someone could claim it was accidentally carried off.

As for Lev 17:15,16 would not an animal found dead typically not be properly bled? WTS acknowledges this here:

bq 8-9 Jehovah's Witnesses and the Question of Blood

19 This pouring out of the blood was not simply a religious ritual; it actually was an extension of the divine law given to Noah. When killing an animal, a person should recognize that its life comes from and belongs to God. By not eating the blood, but ?pouring it out? on the altar or on the ground, the Israelite was, in effect, returning the creature?s life to God.

20 For an Israelite to show disregard for life as represented by the blood was viewed as a most serious wrong. The person deliberately disregarding this law about blood was to be ?cut off,? executed. (Leviticus 7:26, 27; Numbers 15:30, 31) A measure of guilt resulted even from eating the blood-containing flesh of an animal that died of itself or that was killed by a wild beast .?Leviticus , 16; compare Leviticus 5:3; .

Some other discussions that I have read make the point that while consumption of blood was prohibited, it could be put to other uses. This does not seem possible for those under the Law because Lev instructed that it be poured out on the ground, however this is absent in the command given to Noah. Would anyone have more info on the Jewish point of view on this?

A couple other scriptures that I find interesting:

Leviticus 3:17

17 ??It is a statute to time indefinite for YOUR generations, in all YOUR dwelling places: YOU must not eat any fat or any blood at all.??

Seemingly an absolute prohibition, yet note this exception:

Leviticus 7:24-25

24 Now the fat of a body [already] dead and the fat of an animal torn to pieces may be used for anything else conceivable, but YOU must not eat it at all. 25 For anyone eating fat from the beast from which he presents it as an offering made by fire to Jehovah, the soul that eats must be cut off from his people.

WTS comment:

w81 10/15 pp. 30-31 Questions from Readers

Do you see the point? Though they could eat neither blood nor fat, Jehovah said that they could put fat to uses other than in sacrifice. But God did not say that about blood.

This is used to claim that it would be wrong for Christians to put blood to any other use, however the last paragraph of the same article says:

?Accordingly, a farmer today might have to get rid of an unbled carcass, such as a cow that he found dead so that it was no longer possible to drain the blood.?

So it would seem to be very difficult to extract blood in any quantity post-mortem to put to some other use, making it seem fairly obvious why the Law would not specify the same allowance re: blood due to the physical impossibility of doing so.

One use of unbled flesh that Jews found of an animal found dead was to eat it as long they followed the Lev 17 procedure.

26

JW Blood Doctrine Dismembered

by AlanF in

i thought some people might like to see a strictly bible-based dismemberment of the jw blood doctrine.

for some introductory material, see the thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/67949/4.ashx.

shadow

Very interesting posts on scriptures that I have been looking for more information on for quite some time.

Earnest,

It does seem to me also that eating an animal found dead was a matter of purity rather than intrinsically a sin in itself requiring only cleansing. This leads me to the opinion that blood in and of itself was not sacred material, rather it was given special treatment due to what it represented. In fact I believe the most common use of the word blood is actually to symbolize life. Acts 15 seems in harmony with this due to its prohibiting the use of blood as food and showing respect for God when slaughtering an animal (do not kill an animal by strangulation).

You mentioned that you did not think the passage in Lev 17 had anything to do with the blood prohibition. Would you elaborate on this?

Tom,

Thank you for your clarifications. I have gone back and read through some of your older posts. Very interesting. How do you come to have this level of knowledge about Judaism? Do you know of any good reference works that may help others to a greater understanding of the Law shorter than 100 volumes? I have not had much success with Internet searches.

38

Can an ex elder help me please

by orangefatcat in

jw
friends

i have been reading the publication, "pay attention to yourself and to all the flock',

under the subject of the "proper view of disfellowshipped and disassociated persons.

unit 5 (a), it says, " the principle set forth in jesus' words, at matthew 10:34-38 has a bearing on situations involving disfellowshepped or disassociated relatives.

shadow

At least one response from the service department indicated that a person associating with df'd relatives was in danger of losing their privileges (elder, MS, pioneer, etc.) but would not be df'd themselves.

This is from about 2000 or 2001.

26

JW Blood Doctrine Dismembered

by AlanF in

i thought some people might like to see a strictly bible-based dismemberment of the jw blood doctrine.

for some introductory material, see the thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/67949/4.ashx.

shadow

Earnest,

Just wanted to thank you for your response. I think I was confused and connecting the point made about other scholars supporting their position to the idea of eating in ignorance. Have you ever come across anyone else linking this verse to something being done in ignorance?

Is this a deliberate twisting of scripture by WTS to shore up transfusion policy or possibly just a point of view on the correct understanding of the Hebrew?

26

JW Blood Doctrine Dismembered

by AlanF in

i thought some people might like to see a strictly bible-based dismemberment of the jw blood doctrine.

for some introductory material, see the thread:.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/7/67949/4.ashx.

shadow

Earnest,

I found your comment quite interesting. Are you familiar with the 83 WT QFR on this matter? They put the spin on Lev 17 that for this to apply to a Jew, they must have eaten in ignorance. I have no idea how that would be implied by this scripture. Isn't the context discussing hunting?

Is not the difference between the proselyte and the pagan alien who ate an animal found dead simply this: the proselyte would be required to bathe while the pagan would not.

Also, is the procedure the same as this?

***

Rbi8 Leviticus 15:16-18 ***

16

"?Now in case a man has an emission of semen go out from him, he must then bathe all his flesh in water and be unclean until the evening. 17 And any garment and any skin upon which the emission of semen gets to be must be washed with water and be unclean until the evening.

18

"?As for a woman with whom a man may lie down with an emission of semen, they must bathe in water and be unclean until the evening.

4

BLOOD -- WTS Questions and Sound Answers 2

by Marvin Shilmer in

blood -- wts questions and sound answers 2

*** w69 6/1 326-7 godly respect for life and blood *** .

"some persons may reason that getting a blood transfusion is not actually "eating.

shadow

Good points that are usually so obscure that they escape the notice of most JW's.

It seems to me that the WT does not seem to be entirely opposed to cannibalism.

Another line of 'reasoning' in that same article:

__________________________________________________________________________________________

***

w80 3/15 p. 31 Questions from Readers ***

While the Bible specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no Biblical command pointedly forbidding the taking in of other human tissue.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

Of course to be a cannibal according to WT policy would not be very easy.

You could not eat the body of a person you found dead because that would be eating unbled meat.

Maybe if extremely fortunate the WT cannibal could come across someone that died in such a way that they bled out incidentally.

Killing someone and then properly bleeding the body would make you a murderer.

It might be allowable if someone else did the killing and bleeding (sort of like leaving donating blood and cutting it up sufficiently to others, eh?)

So this position of WT saying that cannibalism is not scripturally condemned seems to be an untenable justification for organ transplants in any practical sense.