Posts by robhic

5

Factors that Influence Fear of Death

by peacefulpete in

this is an review of a study that was done in florida u.s.a. the language is thick, but all terms are defined.

the results are interesting and surprising.

wisdom, purpose in life, and attitudes toward death (pdf)

robhic

Do JW fear death as stated above? I have a JW friend who, just this evening, told me (again) that she would welcome death. She has Multiple Sclerosis and has been having a rough time of it the last year or so, so she welcomes death. She says it would just be existing in nothingness, not experiencing or feeling anything and waiting for jehovah to resurrect her on the earthly paradise in a perfect body.

Sounds OK in theory, but I told her it seems that that would be ungrateful to jehovah for giving her the life she has now (it is a gift, isn't it?) and wanting to squander it for whatever reason. You gotta play the hand dealt you...

Is this realistic or do JW really have a fear of death moreso than it being the "holding pattern" for eternal life in paradise?

Robert

21

Armageddon -- truth or fiction?

by robhic in

i happened to see something on the history channel the other night and, as i was half-listening, i thought the comments were made that the word/name "armageddon" doesn't actually appear in the bible.

i did a quick search thru my electronic "e-sword" bible program and couldn't find any mention of the name in any versions.

the history channel show said amageddon was a reference to the place where all of the armies are going to meet up to throw down in the final conflict that is called armageddon.

robhic

Thus spake Gopher:

Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Or another way to spell it is "Har-Mageddon", which means "mountain of Megiddo".

Ah, spelling was the culprit! Thanks to Gopher and the others for the information. It still is interesting that an event that is referred to so frequently by all or most religious groups isn't that ubiquitous at all. Rev 16:15 makes an intreresting point about running around nekkid, too. They used some heavy drugs back then, eh?

Also, good point by Nathan. Yes, my life is better now than it was back in the 1800's, although I miss my concubines.

Robert

21

Armageddon -- truth or fiction?

by robhic in

i happened to see something on the history channel the other night and, as i was half-listening, i thought the comments were made that the word/name "armageddon" doesn't actually appear in the bible.

i did a quick search thru my electronic "e-sword" bible program and couldn't find any mention of the name in any versions.

the history channel show said amageddon was a reference to the place where all of the armies are going to meet up to throw down in the final conflict that is called armageddon.

robhic

I happened to see something on the History channel the other night and, as I was half-listening, I thought the comments were made that the word/name "Armageddon" doesn't actually appear in the bible. How could that be as much as it is used? I did a quick search thru my electronic "e-Sword" bible program and couldn't find any mention of the name in any versions. What gives?

The History channel show said Amageddon was a reference to the place where all of the armies are going to meet up to throw down in the final conflict that is called Armageddon. It's not an event, it's a location -- "Meggido" -- and the battle will follow. But neither of those words is in the bible. Hmmm...

Is the use of the name Armageddon just a reference to something commonly understood to be the battle of the end or are JW and other christian groups mis-using this term? Not a big deal bit I figured some of the smarties here would be able to give a non-JW and general heathen by nature a quick explanation.

Thanks for your time and any info.

Robert

21

Comments You Will Not Hear at the Real 2-29-04 WT Study (last wk s/b 2-22)

by blondie in

god?s way of ruling is by love.

if that would be the case, wouldn?t we really be asking ourselves the question, ?do we really want the rulership of god??

"everlasting life in a righteous new world.".

robhic

I've commented about this at another time but, as a non-JW, it literally boggles my mind to see the endless, incessant repetition of words and phrases like: "soon" "the end is near" "close at hand" "right around the corner," etc, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Just how many times can a person be told that the end is near yet the end never comes?

Didn't the story of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" make it into JW literature and legend? Geez, it makes me want to gag seeing this endless stream of gloom and doom with no end in sight. How do they do it?!

But, like a trainwreck, I can't look away and keep assaulting my sensibilities with this BS. Am I a masochist?

Blondie, congrats and thank you for a wonderful and insightful job as usual.

Robert

25

What if satan were to change?

by robhic in

i was wondering how this part of the bible can be taken seriously.

for thousand of years, it has been written down that satan will be thrown into the abyss along with his minions.

ok, so how incredibly stupid (is there even a limit?

robhic

I recently read a "fiction" novel by the author ANNE RICE ( The Vampire Chronicles) called MEMNOC THE DEVIL. Although is was fiction; it told the story of the Devil, from his point of view.
It turned the entire Christian framework on end and made you think of the Western culture God and Creation story from a very different perspective; namely the Devils. I found it fascinating and related to your question. Read it; you will enjoy the view.

Thanks. I read a lot so this would be a good addition to my reading list. Sounds interesting, although I hate to think of reading something from the person who wrote that piffle "vampire" stuff! I'll have to get that book.

Thanks again,

Robert

21

Is it respectful to call God by name?

by woodland in

i was just wondering what your views were about calling god jehovah.

i appreciate that there is scriptures that says to call on his name, but if i were to meet the queen or president bush it would grossly disrespectful to say hi there elizabeth or how you doing george.

if this is the case with mere men and women in positions of power, is it not imaginable to address god on first name terms?

robhic

I believe I posed this same question somewhere a while back. I agree 100% with your position.

In my opinion, it is very disrespectful, not to mention presumptuous, to call a person of a higher status (or whatever) by their first name. I wouldn't call the president of a company nor my own parents by their first name. You just don't do that.

I think the dubs take some extraordinary liberties with their position on using god's name. Besides, even jesus called him "father" and that is the word/name he used to teach his followers to pray. Can't get more specific than that.

Do you think it is just one more of the many and vaious ways the WTS tries to put themselves in a "special" place and distance themselves from the rest of mainstream religions? More fuel for the "us vs. them" fire?

Robert

25

What if satan were to change?

by robhic in

i was wondering how this part of the bible can be taken seriously.

for thousand of years, it has been written down that satan will be thrown into the abyss along with his minions.

ok, so how incredibly stupid (is there even a limit?

robhic

Ozzie sez:

Robhic,
I'm afraid you're looking at things thru Dub eyes! Sure, what you state makes it sound a tad far-fetched, but then aren't you basing it upon the Dub interpretation of Revelation?
There are far different ideas on that book, do believe me, that are far more reasonable than the Dub version of events. Suppose for example, it refers allegorically to what had already taken place when Jesus triumphed over Satan and was resurrected?

Oh no! I am not nor ever was a dub! You're scaring me. The fact that you can say I am looking at this thru one's eyes concerns me. Does it mean I am spending too much time absorbing the material and thoughts from these different forums?

I didn't realize I had taken a dub position. I, actually, was going from my memory. I thought most, if not all bibles, had jesus whipping satan's ass at armageddon and tossing him and his posse into the abyss in some form or another. Is this wrong?

I was just wondering why something that has been known and recorded for thousands of years couldn't be changed by a reasonably smart demon. If lucifer knew he would be beaten and thrown into a fiery abyss seems he'd change his tactics and thro wthe whole deal into a messs of world-class proportion! I know if I had the chance, I would!

Thanks for he heads up, too, I'll try to watch myself and how I view things in the future. Wouldn't my catholic teachers be proud of me?

Thanks, Ozzie,

Robert

25

What if satan were to change?

by robhic in

i was wondering how this part of the bible can be taken seriously.

for thousand of years, it has been written down that satan will be thrown into the abyss along with his minions.

ok, so how incredibly stupid (is there even a limit?

robhic

Sword of Jah says:

But thinking about your analysis, I am reminded of Iraq's former dictator Hussein. He knew he could never win a war against the US, but why did he keep at it? Because he was stupid? Maybe, but the reality is that the guy is smart, of course using his brains for evil instead of good.

I don't disagree with this comment but I think the situations are substantially different. No one described in detail exactly how the US would capture Hussein and more-or-less beat his country into submission years and years before Saddam came to power or was even born, for that matter.

Seems to me that Satan was tipped off way in advance and his conqueror is supposedly a much more formidable opponent than the puny little US and its armies and allies. Satan's destiny has been pre-ordained since, well, since forever, according to the bible. Is satan more prideful than smart? If he is just an over-confident windbag why is he reputed to be so dangerous? Seems like a reasonably smart person could thwart him by playing to his ego. Doesn't sound so tough to me...

Robert

25

What if satan were to change?

by robhic in

i was wondering how this part of the bible can be taken seriously.

for thousand of years, it has been written down that satan will be thrown into the abyss along with his minions.

ok, so how incredibly stupid (is there even a limit?

robhic

I was wondering how this part of the bible can be taken seriously. For thousand of years, it has been written down that satan will be thrown into the abyss along with his minions. OK, so how incredibly stupid (is there even a limit?) does someone have to be to know something is going to happen to them (for 1000's of years no less...) and not change his plan?

If I knew a cop was around a corner and was going to ticket me for speeding, would I not slow down? If a burglar had taken out an ad in a newspaper saying that he was going to break into my house "soon" or "in a time very near" would I not take steps to prevent this?

It just seems silly that the battle of armageddon's outcome has been "known" (supposedly) for all this time yet nobody gives satan the credit to be smart enough to read the story! If he's that stupid, what's to be afraid of?

And what if Jesus had been freed instead of Barabbas? Besides Mel Gibson not having to make his latest movie and stir everyone up, how screwed up would the biblical world be? In my opinion, it seems that all of organized religion would never have come to be.

I'm sure some enterprising person would have eventually figured out another way to control bunches of people thru fear but that sure would have thrown a big monkey-wrench into things until this day, wouldn't it? Am I completely off-base with these musings?

I know this sounds a bit silly but it interests and amuses me.

Robert

60

Will science ever replace religion?

by onacruse in

first, there've been some really good threads here lately...i've been somewhat pre-occupied with a rather laborious personal project, so i haven't been able to engage myself in your conversations as much as i'd otherwise like; but i like to watch .

but, to the point: recently, scott atran (anthropologist, author of in gods we trust, and now working with the national center for scientific research in paris, and at the university of michigan) gave an interview in discover magazine.

the topic was "the surprises of suicide terrorism," but the concluding question (and answer) was what struck me most:.

robhic

Religions tend to self perpetuate, and in that regard they exist more or less because they've existed for a hell of a long time already. They are incredibly endurable social structures.

Interestingly, I was thinking along these lines recently.What makes a Catholic a Catholic or a Baptist a Baptist,.etc.? My guess is primarily accident of birth. You're born into a family/environment that embraces a religious group (usually) so you are raised thinking this is the one and only real religion. Some more strident than others but you've got the right one and others should get a clue. You never really question the stuff that is just spoon-fed to you. It's gotta be true because your parents (and they're right about everything when you're a kid), family and teachers (in the religious schools) tell you.

You may go to schools provided or supported by this religion, your family subscribes to the beliefs. Heck you don't really know any other way. At some point, you start to question or at least wonder about some of the bizarre teachings you've adhered to as fact and law for so long. With me raised Catholic, I could never figure out why fish isn't meat and it had to be eaten on Friday when other meat couldn't. Show me that one in the bible...

Then some of the other stuff starts looking a little suspicious. Finally, I read the bible cover to cover and what I planned to be a voyage of biblical discovery turned out making me more agnostic with atheistic leanings than anything! The bible cured me and made me a world-class skeptic.

I don't fault those who believe what they do. I just don't like when they try to force it down my throat as some absolutist doctrine. Do what floats your boat and let me float mine. Other than that, I really think enviornment you are raised in is the #1 reason for religous bias thus making it self-perpetuate from generation to generation unless or until someone starts to question it.

Robert