Posts by robhic

15

OK, here's another "Hmmmm" bible-thread

by robhic in

gen 3:22

and jehovah god said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever- (asv)

ok, putting aside all the trinitarian implications and the contradictory/chronological problems in genesis so as not to cloud the issue, how can this (above) be accurate?.

robhic

Gen 3:22 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever- (ASV)

OK, putting aside all the trinitarian implications and the contradictory/chronological problems in Genesis so as not to cloud the issue, how can this (above) be accurate?

Jehovah, creator of the universe, almighty, all-powerful, all-knowing, supreme sovreign and master of all things has concentrated his abilities and power into an apple on a tree in a newly-created paradise? I mean, even faith should have its limits. And a mere human who took one bite of this fruit has now become "...as one of us..." -- an equal to God (or whomever he was speaking to)? And taking another bite from another fruit from another tree in this newly-created paradise would then give Adam and Eve eternal life?

If they were even slightly equal, why didn't they surprise Jehovah and kick his ass or use some of their newly-acquired powers (there were two of them and only one of him) to throw him out? And before all this happened, Jehovah was strolling thru the garden and Adam and Eve hid from him and he couldn't find them. How can an all-knowing being not know something? Doesn't that negate the "all-knowing" aspect? Why didn't they continue to hide until they could formulate a workable plan to get past this? They had become somewhat equal.

I am not trying to start an argument because I truly think this is a "feel-good" story written to instill a little (a lot?) fear and awe into a primitive group of nomadic herdsmen. I'd just be curious to hear from some who are much more learned in this area than I am about why anybody could read this (and other parts) using even simple logic or a critical eye and think it is a true story? I can see the ancient Hebrews buying into this bullshit but, c'mon, modern, educated, 21st Century adults? It boggles my mind...

Robert

13

Are things REALLY getting worse? JWs are so pessimistic...

by somebodylovesme in

one of the things that always puzzled me about the witnesses' doctrine was this idea that we are living in the worst time the world has ever seen - that the twentieth century has surpassed all others in death and destruction.

am i only the only crazy fool who thinks we have it pretty good?.

a hundred years ago, people died from diseases that are easily treated today.

robhic

Somebodylovesme made a comment regarding earthquakes. I'm glad you asked! I have been waiting to share this information for a while. The first part (statistics) is from the US Geological Survey and their website address is at the top.

The second part is obviously from WTS sources and it seems that the WTS is finally admitting that their stance on increased earthquake and other earth-changing activity is flawed. Enjoy. (Bold emphasis mine)

Robert

http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/general/handouts/increaseinearthquakes.html

Date Location Deaths

======================================

January 23, 1556 China, Shansi 830,000
August 9, 1138 Syria, Aleppo 230,000

December 22, 856+ Iran, Damghan 200,000

March 23, 893+ Iran, Ardabil 150,000

December 28, 1908 Italy, Messina 70,000 to 100,000
September, 1290 China, Chihli 100,000

November, 1667 Caucasia, Shemakha 80,000

November 18, 1727 Iran, Tabriz 77,000

November 1, 1755 Portugal, Lisbon 70,000

1268 Asia Minor, Silicia 60,000

January 11, 1693 Italy, Sicily 60,000

February 4, 1783 Italy, Calabria 50,000

====================================================

The article is from the Awake! March 22, 2002 it is entitled, "Earthquakes, Bible Prophecy, And You"

"BEFORE his death, Jesus foretold events and situations that would give evidence that this world had entered "the conclusion of the System or things." That period, he said, would be marked by such things as' pestilences, food shortages, and large-scale warfare. He also mentioned "great earthquakes"
that would occur "in one place after another." (Matthew 24:3,7; Luke 21:10, 11) Was Jesus referring to our day?
Many say no. They assert that the number of earthquakes has not substantially increased in recent decades. In fact, the U.S. National Earthquake Information Center reports that earthquakes of 7.0 magnitude' and greater remained "fairly constant" throughout the 20th century."

====================================================

Watchtower 12/1/93

page 6 paragraph 2 Natural Disasters-Is God Responsible?

In this regard, note what the book Natural Disasters-Acts of God or Acts of Man? has to say: "There is no evidence that the climatological mechanisms associated with droughts, floods and cyclones are changing. And no geologist is claiming that the earth movements associated with earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunami (earthquake waves) are becoming more violent." Similarly, the book Earthshock observes: "The rocks of every continent contain a record of innumerable major and minor geological events, every one of which would be a catastrophic disaster to mankind if they occurred today-and it is scientifically certain that such events will occur again and again in the future." In other words, the earth and its dynamic forces have more or less remained the same throughout the ages. Hence, whether or not some statistics indicate an increase of some forms of geologic or other activity, the earth has not become uncontrollably violent in recent times.

10

Reasons for Moving to Wallkill ?

by robhic in

i read a while back about selling the brooklyn facility and moving the printing operations to wallkill (???).

i know it's all about money for the wts, but what reasons did they give for actually going through this involved, expensive process when, bottom line, the end is soon and everything is gonna be killed and destroyed?

why not just "wait on jehovah?".

robhic

Thus sayeth Garybuss:

Robert, there are two rules for ANYTHING the Watch Tower Corporation (Society) does.
Rule #1. Anything the Society does is right.
Rule #2. If the Society ever does anything that does not seem right, see rule #1.

Aha! I kinda figured that but I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'd at least give their minions the courtesy of trying to make some reasons. Thanks for the answer that seems to definitely be the answer to all questions in dub-land.

Robert

10

Reasons for Moving to Wallkill ?

by robhic in

i read a while back about selling the brooklyn facility and moving the printing operations to wallkill (???).

i know it's all about money for the wts, but what reasons did they give for actually going through this involved, expensive process when, bottom line, the end is soon and everything is gonna be killed and destroyed?

why not just "wait on jehovah?".

robhic

Thanks for the responses but, so far, most have just said that it was to raise even more money for the WTS. I kinda knew that, I was mainly curious about what reason they used to justify such a move to the R&F when, in light of the end being so near or soon, it seems to me (admittedly not a JW) that a huge expensive move like this would require some explanation or justification. Am I wrong? Do the masses really not care?

I'm trying to understand the blind allegiance that must be involved but I can't seem to grasp something this big being done without a slight explanation other than needing more space. So what? It'll all be over "soon" won't it?

Robert

10

Reasons for Moving to Wallkill ?

by robhic in

i read a while back about selling the brooklyn facility and moving the printing operations to wallkill (???).

i know it's all about money for the wts, but what reasons did they give for actually going through this involved, expensive process when, bottom line, the end is soon and everything is gonna be killed and destroyed?

why not just "wait on jehovah?".

robhic

I read a while back about selling the Brooklyn facility and moving the printing operations to Wallkill (???). I know it's all about money for the WTS, but what reasons did they give for actually going through this involved, expensive process when, bottom line, the end is soon and everything is gonna be killed and destroyed? Why not just "wait on jehovah?"

I searched this site but found nothing giving a reason for the move just that it is taking place. Any ideas or comments? Publications?

Thanks,

Robert

6

Earthquake Frequency

by robhic in

i could swear i read on this particular forum a comment that the wts finally admitted that earthquakes were not more frequent as they have contended for such a long time.

i thought someone mentioned a wt or awake!

in which this statement was made.. i did a search on this forum and another but no luck.

robhic

Thanks, guys, those weren't either of the article/references I remembered seeing (I just saw it recently) but those references were perfect! Exactly what I was looking for and more. I just don't know why my search didn't turn one or more of these up?

Robert

6

Earthquake Frequency

by robhic in

i could swear i read on this particular forum a comment that the wts finally admitted that earthquakes were not more frequent as they have contended for such a long time.

i thought someone mentioned a wt or awake!

in which this statement was made.. i did a search on this forum and another but no luck.

robhic

I could swear I read on this particular forum a comment that the WTS finally admitted that earthquakes were not more frequent as they have contended for such a long time. I thought someone mentioned a WT or Awake! in which this statement was made.

I did a search on this forum and another but no luck. I am curious if anyone can remember the publication in which this admission was made. Or else tell me if I am mistaken because I thought sure I noticed it in a thread within the last week or two at most.

Any help is appreciated and thanks in advance.

Robert

20

The WTBS Inc. and ?.the iceberg

by MacHislopp in

in the year 1984 :

in the year 1990

watch tower society?s publications

robhic

" Since the slave class was loyally doing the Master's work at his invisible return in 1914 there is evidence that it was entrusted with enlarged responsabilities in 1919'

Is it just me -- a non-JW -- but does "invisible return" and then the word "evidence" in the same sentence seem odd? If something was invisible (I mean, really invisible...) then how in the world do you get evidence ... of invisibility? Wouldn't something, somewhere be not invisible?

Robert

35

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 1-25-04 WT Study

by blondie in

review comments

will be in black and parentheses ()

wt quotes

robhic

As a non-JW I can only imagine the effect these publications must have on the "true-believers." When I read these excellent reviews by Blondie I am struck by one thing: Just how many times can a person hear a word or phrase before it becomes meaningless?

Not to diminish the spirit and intelligence of former JWs, and this is not meant to be derogatory, but after hearing the specific word NEAR over and over and over again in all of its associated contexts can someone not become immune to its meaning? I mean, if every publication every week of every year stresses something is "near" yet it fails to become reality (except maybe by those darn "invisible" things...) how can anyone take this seriously? When you tell someone something repeatedly -- "the check is in the mail" for example -- yet it fails to materialize, at what point to you eventually realize that it is an outright falsehood? I don't think it would take me upwards of 90 years to realize my check ain't coming!

I find this amazing. I suppose not being brought up in the religion (I got here looking for information to help me understand a woman I was/am involved with who became a JW 3 years ago and 2 years after we had been together) these writings seem not only nonsensical but downright stupid.

Just reading one of Blondie's incisive reviews of one WT article makes me shake my head. And I don't even know why but they make me angry! I guess being a pragmatic, realistic sort, I find these rantings about stuff that sounds like utter BS to be annoying. How can folks go on for years listening to this stuff and continue buying into it? It is so sad and astounding at the same time.

Thanks to all here for the information I have gained by reading your stories and insights and thanks to Blondie for doing these labor-intensive reviews in such a loving, selfless manner. I don't know how you can stand it.

Robert

12

Genesis 6:3

by Globetrotter in

i know that this has been talked about already under a different context, but i had another question about it.... .

the december 15 wt claims that genesis 6:3 started a 120 year countdown to the flood.

our watchfulness takes on greater urgency .

robhic

main problem, though, is that they don't fully separate the possible "real story" from any preexisting Flood stories the Sumerians might have had from living for hundreds of years along the Tigris and Euphrates.

Leolaia, I read another book (must have too much time on my hands ) that was quite interesting and backed by a lot of scientific evidence and data. In a nutshell, the author states that it seems a very real possibility that the flood did indeed happen -- just not when and how the bible renders it.

It seems that the evidence shows that during a period of global warming, the resulting increase in sea levels from melting ice caps and glaciers resulted in a huge flood that overflowed the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea (which was more like the Black Lake before this flood) thru the Bosphorus Strait and raised the level as much as a hundred feet or more (if my memory is correct).

This is all backed up by geological, scientific and photographic evidence from the sea floor done by Dr. Robert Ballard of 'Titanic' fame. It is fascinating and quite convincing. The flood is a reality -- its biblical circumstances and chronology are not.

Robert