Good point Flash.
Willyloman, in my hall everyone comments at the meetings, "how near we are to the end" but no one actually behaves like this is true.
truthseeker
JoinedPosts by truthseeker
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26
Do you sense "a sense of urgency" in the congregations?
by truthseeker innow that we're in the 21st century, and all those pre-millenium worries that a few had about armaggedon seem to have gone, everyone seems to be getting on with their lives, buying homes, going on cruises and planning for their retirement.. not everyone does these things, but there is so little talk about the great tribulation, armaggedon and the new system, you can't help but wonder if they are just going through the motions.. i see young people at the hall - they couldn't care less about spiritual things, although they may comment and go out in service.. i see people in the 30s quietly getting on with life - a few are building their own homes from scratch, others are planning on moving and some have bought new cars.. nothing wrong with this, but each of these things show an investment in the future.
a car has to be paid for (if its a lease), a home needs a 15/25/30 year mortgage and this all takes time.. time with a capital "t".. let's face it - the urgency is gone.
no one thinks about the "time of the end" and everyone does their own thing.. families are still having children.. one of my college professors once asked me: "how do you know that people have confidence in the future?".
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26
Do you sense "a sense of urgency" in the congregations?
by truthseeker innow that we're in the 21st century, and all those pre-millenium worries that a few had about armaggedon seem to have gone, everyone seems to be getting on with their lives, buying homes, going on cruises and planning for their retirement.. not everyone does these things, but there is so little talk about the great tribulation, armaggedon and the new system, you can't help but wonder if they are just going through the motions.. i see young people at the hall - they couldn't care less about spiritual things, although they may comment and go out in service.. i see people in the 30s quietly getting on with life - a few are building their own homes from scratch, others are planning on moving and some have bought new cars.. nothing wrong with this, but each of these things show an investment in the future.
a car has to be paid for (if its a lease), a home needs a 15/25/30 year mortgage and this all takes time.. time with a capital "t".. let's face it - the urgency is gone.
no one thinks about the "time of the end" and everyone does their own thing.. families are still having children.. one of my college professors once asked me: "how do you know that people have confidence in the future?".
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truthseeker
Now that we're in the 21st century, and all those pre-millenium worries that a few had about Armaggedon seem to have gone, everyone seems to be getting on with their lives, buying homes, going on cruises and planning for their retirement.
Not everyone does these things, but there is so little talk about The Great Tribulation, Armaggedon and the New System, you can't help but wonder if they are just going through the motions.
I see young people at the hall - they couldn't care less about spiritual things, although they may comment and go out in service.
I see people in the 30s quietly getting on with life - a few are building their own homes from scratch, others are planning on moving and some have bought new cars.
Nothing wrong with this, but each of these things show an investment in the future.
A car has to be paid for (if its a lease), a home needs a 15/25/30 year mortgage and this all takes time.
Time with a capital "T".
Let's face it - the urgency is gone. No one thinks about the "time of the end" and everyone does their own thing.
Families are still having children.
One of my college professors once asked me: "How do you know that people have confidence in the future?"
The answer? They have children.
The Society laments that, "as a people we are not ready" for the day of Jehovah, they lambast those who are quietly leading a normal life and scream at everyone to do more, more and more.
The threats, the taunts go over our heads. We don't care anymore.
You failed Watchtower. You dashed our hopes for surviving into a new world. You saw elderly members die of old age, putting YOUR kingdom first. You saw thousands of youths leave your throngs for something better.
You have only yourselves to blame for the lack of urgency you say we all have.
If any of you still go to the Hall, can you see a similar attitude? Are their many who really talk about the "urgency" of the times we're living in?
Are there those that simplify their lives and pioneer?
It never fails to amaze me, that the number of pioneers compared to publishers has always been around 10%.
That means 90% of us just go through the motions.
I mean, lets face it - IF we really, really wanted to - we could give up college, parenthood and careers, sell our home and move into a smaller apartment, trade in our new car for an old one, simplify our lives to such an extent that we could work part time and pioneer, we probably might be able to.
Like I said, a big IF!
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44
Is there a slowdown in congregation get togethers?
by truthseeker ini was just reading thelisteners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.. it seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.. even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not.
(note, this may not be true at all conventions).
where is a jehovah's witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more?
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truthseeker
I would like to be able to start a new topic on "How expensive is entertainment in your congregation?" but have used up my two posts per day quota.
Maybe we could combine the original post with this new avenue of thought.
In your congregation, did you need a lot of money to keep up with Witness activities?
such as...
golf
cruises
camping
parties
visiting museums, wineries, six flags etc
expensive restaurant meals
expensive "let's get together and rent hall for this occasion" activity
weddings, graduations (although not entertainment, did this cost you a lot to attend)
Were you ever asked to contribute to the rental of a hall for any social purpose?
or was entertainment and recreation "almost free"? say, visiting a park where you paid parking, or a visit to the beach.
Some things in life are free, such as going to your friends house to watch a movie - unless someone say, "Let's have Chinese tonight."
If you struggled financially, how did you get round those awkward questions, "Do you want to do this tonight?" Were you always honest to admit you didn't have money?
For myself, I was not very responsible with money, so I never had any. I was always in debt, and even renting a movie was expensive. I didn't allow people to treat me though, the few times they did, I always paid them back and thanked them. It's plain embarassing never to have money.
And consider the Saturday morning dub break - I didn't always have money for a coffee and felt bad when someone would say, "Let's go to Dunkin Donuts."
Fortunately, those days are over. I manage my money better and have a little left over.
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44
Is there a slowdown in congregation get togethers?
by truthseeker ini was just reading thelisteners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.. it seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.. even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not.
(note, this may not be true at all conventions).
where is a jehovah's witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more?
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truthseeker
Good point Jesika!
Even when the dubs were altogether, they were certainly not together.
If we went to a park, the dubs who didn't like the other dubs (the younger ones) would just do their own thing. It was a case of oil and water NOT mixing.
And it's hard to be yourself when the only time you see fellow witnesses is at a meeting.
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Is there a slowdown in congregation get togethers?
by truthseeker ini was just reading thelisteners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.. it seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.. even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not.
(note, this may not be true at all conventions).
where is a jehovah's witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more?
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truthseeker
Good point Blondie.
You mentioned "money driven." - I know witnesses who would love to have taken part in certain activities, such as going out to eat sushi or on a cruise, but they simply can't afford it. Then they get hurt when they aren't invited by friends who do have the money.
In some congs. money talks loudly. If you can't afford a round of golf with an elder, you won't play golf. Money dictates whom we can and can't spend our time with in some circumstances.
It's a shame - I thought maybe it's a kindness not to invite a friend to an expensive night out if you genuinely feel they can't afford it.
A couple who are going out to a restaurant are looking at spending at least $30 each on food, that's $60 for two people. Other couples have this enjoyment every other week.
Some JW's talk about going on cruises, which cost over $1200 each, - one couple I know were espousing a resort in the Dominican Republic - all you can eat and everything provided for - only $1800 per person.
With this in mind, JW's who can't afford to do activities like this, will not get invited, if their friends know of their financial circumstances. This will lead them to feeling left out - or perhaps it won't.
But I think money is a big issue when it comes to entertainment.
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JW-media.org - Germany High Court Upholds Witnesses? Full Exercise of Faith
by truthseeker ingermany high court upholds witnesses?
full exercise of faith
on march 24, 2005, the high administrative court (ovg) in berlin granted jehovah?s witnesses recognition as a corporation of public right.
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truthseeker
Germany High Court Upholds Witnesses? Full Exercise of Faith
On March 24, 2005, the High Administrative Court (OVG) in Berlin granted Jehovah?s Witnesses recognition as a Corporation of Public Right. Jehovah?s Witnesses have been active in Germany for over 100 years and are well-known there as around the world for their signature work of teaching the Bible to any who are interested in its message. What benefits does an already legal and recognized religion gain by being classified as having ?Public Corporation Rights??
Under German law, this corporate status is enjoyed by most major religions. The High Court?s ruling is a further protection to Jehovah?s Witnesses and adds the right to establish charitable organizations, maintain tax-exempt status, and provide buildings and meetings for worship.
Werner Rudtke, speaking for the presiding committee of the Religious Association in Germany, said: ?The decision will further simplify the exercise of our religion. Our local congregations (communities), which have often been registered as individual associations, can be better supported in the future by the Religious Association, for example when looking for property for Kingdom Halls. That means more freedom for our main activity?preaching the gospel and providing Bible education.?
While this new status allows the corporation to employ elders as civil servants, Jehovah?s Witnesses will not utilize this provision. Congregation elders among Jehovah?s Witnesses are not salaried, since from earliest times this position is one taken voluntarily, with no monetary compensation. The role of the elders continues to be based on spiritual qualifications outlined in Scripture and is not any elected position.
Rudtke adds that the ruling improves cooperation with the officials. Jehovah?s Witnesses already have an international reputation for being politically neutral, and they already operate around the world as a not-for-profit organization. But this latest ruling in Germany documents that they are not interested in nor would they ever seek financial reimbursement from the government. ?We wish to emphasize that we relinquish the right to take church tax [a provision available to recognized religions in Germany] and to appoint our own officials,? says Rudtke. And regarding the internationally recognized work of Jehovah?s Witnesses, ?Our main interest remains to impart hope and comfort for the future by means of the Bible.?
Media Contact: Werner Rudtke 011-49-6483 41-0
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44
Is there a slowdown in congregation get togethers?
by truthseeker ini was just reading thelisteners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.. it seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.. even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not.
(note, this may not be true at all conventions).
where is a jehovah's witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more?
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truthseeker
Blondie
Seems your cong has more fun than we do. Our cong is very pioneer oriented - no time for the sort of things your cong has.
I think one couple goes out to Applebees after the school and service meeting.
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Is there a slowdown in congregation get togethers?
by truthseeker ini was just reading thelisteners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.. it seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.. even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not.
(note, this may not be true at all conventions).
where is a jehovah's witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more?
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truthseeker
I was just reading TheListeners post from an earlier thread, and it got me thinking just how little time dubs have to associate togther.
It seems to be more and more the fact, that the only time dubs see each other to "associate" - if you can even call it that - is at meetings and conventions.
Even at conventions though, the dubs are told not to go outside for lunch, regardless of whether it is a nice day of not. (Note, this may not be true at all conventions)
Where is a Jehovah's Witness supposed to get this period of refreshment so he can do more? (Also called wholesome association).
At meetings, you see the same cliques get together time and time again. I think I'm beginning to realize the Society's policy of all-inclusiveness, whereby everyone can have an elderly person as a friend, just isn't working.
A sister lamented to me recently, that she has no friends her own age in the cong, and she is only 35. When a younger sister invited her out to chill with her friends, the older sister said she felt unwelcome; perhaps the younger group felt she was their mother?
True friendships are hard to find at the hall, making cong. get togethers largely the work of elders.
What perceived friendships do exist, are simply what I would call "Kingdom Hall buddies." - you know, the brothers and sisters you might talk about a movie with, but not actually go to see the movie with.
Kingdom Hall buddies are easy to find and easy to replace. There is no sense of connection, but they help you pass the time at the hall till you're able to leave.
But this post is about congregation get togethers. Are they slowing down? In light of the above, I would find it difficult to imagine many even getting off the ground, with superficial friends, and young people who just want to do their own thing.
A few years ago, my congregation rented out a hall and had "Talent Night" - it happened once. Nothing has happened since then.
Congregation picnics? My cong can't announce them from the K.Hall, supposedly due to insurance reasons. "What if someone gets hurt?", an elder asked.
Book study picnics - rarely happen anymore.
And with "everyone" so busy in the preaching work, who has time to get together? Busy elders, busy pioneers.
A worldly corporation would love these guys, all work and no play...
Another question - do you think tehcnology has made people want more alone time? Computers, consoles, video games, text messaging - have these technologies limited the "widening out" of the young, even the old?
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27
Tone of the current literature
by TheListener ini haven't started a thread in some time but this is something that has got me thinking.
i want to know if i'm off-base here or if others have noticed this too.is.. over the last several months (perhaps 6-9) i feel that the tone of the wts and kms have been very strong.
not strong in the sense of legalistic do's and don'ts but strong in the sense of do more!!!!
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truthseeker
TheListener, that was an excellent post and you certainly have your finger on the pulse.
Things have changed, pressures are more intense in day to day living.
An elder once asked me why so many of the young dubs have problems making friends - I told him that they felt they had no sense of shared history with each other, everyone went their own way.
Our cong. stopped having picnics, due to "insurance reasons", i.e. not announcing it at the platform. The occasion was eventually limited to book study picnics, and then fizzled out altogether.
Most people I see at the hall who speak to me are simply what I would call "Kingdom Hall buddies." - very shallow and superficial relationships - I can't even call them friendships.
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A possible reason WHY, the 'New System' was never a Reality to us.
by gumby inperhaps i'm wrong, but this is a possible explanation.i was always taught that a new system would soon replace the old one.
in this new system there would be no more war, everyone would eat from his own 'fig tree', they would build houses and love one another.. .
in every publication that depicted this new system.....it was a picture of a beautiful lush productive earth, people were carrying baskets of vegetables and fruit walking together being of different decent, the men were bulding houses with smiles on their faces, and the children were playing with the animals.
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truthseeker
Further though
With all of these new points, how the heck could we ever, "reach out for the real life" as one assembly speaker said?
I guess we'll be waiting for the WT to publish those "new scrolls".