Well done!
Very happy and surprised to see Lady Lee's name mentioned. This board is getting a little notice, it seems.
bebu
Posts by bebu
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5Here is the Macleans magazine scans BIG STORY in CANADA
by cultswatter inthis is a 5 page microsoft word document.
when you print this sucker off it will actually print properly with no edges cut off -sheesh!!!.
enjoy.
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27
I gave my roommate the letter about the Watchtower changes
by oppgirl63 inshe just read it and handed it back to me.
i think she believes me because i have never told her anything regarding the jw's that wasn't true.
she really didn't have anything to say about it, and i didn't question her.
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bebu
This is silly to ask, but...
exactly which changes are you discussing? I can't keep all the changes straight.
How funny for apostates to be the fore-bearers of all new light.
bebu
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9
A JWD collective view on hunger, injustice, prejudice, morals..
by jgnat inzarco asked this question on another thread.
should jwd have a collective view on these burning issues?
my answer, definitely not.
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bebu
No, I don't think a JWD collective view is even possible!
Diversity for its own sake doesn't impress or interest me much. But diversity is itself a very helpful and interesting thing if those diverse people engage in honest and respectful discussions, and are seriously interested in living wisely. Not simply 'information' or points of view changes, but we can refine our own understanding of what is good, better, and best. We can learn to be more careful at discernment. Hopefully, we grow closer together through the experience.
Not everyone values living wisely, though, which throws a wrench into the middle of it all!
2 cents for ya,
bebu
who thinks that 'jgnat' is actually pretty clever!
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Have a look at this funny clock
by JH inunusual, hey !!!.
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http://home.tiscali.nl/annejan/swf/timeline.swf.
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bebu
Cool clock--
and egad, by that second clock it looks like Armageddon really is just around the corner!!
bebu
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bebu
Kudos, abandoned! That's a milestone to be proud of!
...and here I was, wondering if you've already been on the board as long as a year? LOL
bebu
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76
Am going to be reinstated
by Caine inhello true believers.
had jc meeting.
will be reinstated next meeting.
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bebu
I think you will be really working uphill on this. The WTS is not simply a religion--it is a cult. The grace you were waking up to will not be tolerated; obeying the WTS is paramount.
There will come a point where there will clearly be a fork in the road for you, especially if you wish to follow Christ. The WTS will be urging (and threatening) you to go their "righteous" way even if it is CLEARLY, utterly anti-Christ. God will just quietly keep the information you need to know in front of you, prodding your own conscience, letting you choose.
What the heck. Let me help you come to that fork a little quicker. Here is an excerpt from a 1954 trial in Scotland where the leaders of the WTS REALLY spill the beans on its being a cult.
http://gwest59.tripod.com/ChristIsLord/id26.html
Note the obey/control issue being paramount. Obeying the WTS is more important than obeying God!
(The Scottish attorney = Q, WT leader (Covington) = A)
Q. You have studied the literature of your movement?
A. Yes, but not all of it. I have not studied the seven volumes of "Studies in the Scriptures," and I have not studied this matter that you are mentioning now of 1874. I am not at all familiar with that.
Q. Assume from me that it was promulgated as authoritative by the Society that Christ's Second Coming was in 1874?
A. Taking that assumption as a fact, it is a hypothetical statement.
Q. That was the publication of false prophesy?
A. That was the publication of a false prophesy, it was a false statement or an erronious statement in fulfilment of a prophesy that was false or erronious.
Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.
Q. You do not believe in the worldly armies, do you?
A. We believe in the Christian Army of God.
Q. Do you believe in the worldly armies?
A. We have nothing to say about that, we do not preach against them, we merely say that the worldly armies, like the nations of the world today, are a part of Satan's Organization, and we do not take part in them, but we do not say the nations cannot have their armies, we do not preach against warfare, we are merely claiming our exemption from it, that is all.
Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.
Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses?
A. That is correct.
Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.
Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.
Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.
Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.
Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -
Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.
Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.
Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.The web page isn't too long, I think you should read all of it. But the concluding paragraphs on that page point out the dilemma very well:
To recap, Haydon C. Covington basically said that the Watchtower Society views unity as more important than even doctrinal truth, and that this desire for unity may even result in a forced acceptance of false prophecy. Fred Franz's testimony confirmed this, and further showed that, while the Society makes a show of encouraging people to examine its doctrines in light of the scriptures "to see whether these things are so" (Acts 17:10,11), it does not allow its members to freely act upon the results of that examination if the Society's claims are found wanting. Since the Society will never admit to members that it is wrong right now, it does not truly allow them to examine its doctrines to see "whether these things were so," but in practice requires them to examine the scriptures to confirm that these things are so, and to "readjust" their thinking if they are unable to do that. In other words, no matter what an individual finds, he is obligated to believe whatever the Society teaches at that moment. At least, he is obligated not to publicly or privately disagree with the Society, and so if he really cannot bring himself to accept some doctrine, he must pretend to accept it, and live a lie in order to remain in good standing. Since Psalm 51:6 says of Jehovah, "you have taken delight in truthfulness itself in the inward parts," and the Bible says that Jehovah is a God of truth, this attitude would appear inconsistent with his will.
So, even though the Society states it is fallible and is not inspired, no member is allowed to act on this without serious consequences ranging from loss of congregational privileges to disfellowshipping. The Society wants every member to believe, as Covington testified, that any member who acts on the fact that Watchtower Society leaders are not infallible is worthy of death.What did the OT say about following a false prophet? (Dt 18:20-22) What did Jesus say about false prophets? Didn't he give some strong commands about NOT following them? Why ever would the WTS say that following a false prophet (which they admit to being) is suddenly OK??? Not only that, it is required! How could "God's mouthpiece" ever, ever, ever say what they have said?
Only cults say these kinds of things, my dear!
bebu
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6
Joke of the day - Butch the Rooster
by PopeOfEruke injohn the farmer was in the fertilized egg business.
he had several hundred young layers (hens), called "pullets" and eight or ten roosters, whose job was to fertilize the eggs.
the farmer kept records and any rooster that didn't perform went into the soup pot and was replaced.
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bebu
What a groaner! LOLOLOL!! I loved the Pullet-Surprise line too!
bebu
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My Bethel Experience Part 15
by new boy inthe courtship from hell.......i started driving up to rhode island in september of 1972. i would go about every other week.
i needed to "step down" as a book study servant, because at the time daryl christianson had come up with this brillant idea that all the book study conductors should visit everyone in their own book studies and everyone in someone else's book studies every 2 months.........so between, bethel, and a part time "g" job, going up to rhode island and shepparding everyone in the book studies, it was just to much.
so for the first time in my life, i declined a "privilege of service"........it didn't feel that bad......and in fact felt damn good.......little did i know i was leaving one hell for another one.. what i 'm about to tell you...........is the absolute truth!..........we had 2 dates in a year and a half........that is two dates in 18 months.........."2" dates...........the only time they would let us be together with out a chaperone was in the field service...........the whole courtship was spent on her parents couch in the living room......with one of them in the other room!
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bebu
They kicked me out of their house and told me "never to return again".....ah the love.
Hard to imagine how the wedding went after such a statement!
Also, did they really imagine they were punishing you both by saying that? I'll bet you were thankful! Can't imagine how hard it was for Debbie to live under that roof till she was married.
bebu
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My Bethel Experience Part 14
by new boy inmy strange bethel courtship started with me trying to meet mike stillman's sister, even though he worked in the ink room next to my elevavator, we were not good friends, he was just a little to "country" for me........and on the righeous side too.
they say "there is nothing more dangerious in combat then a new guy with a map!
".........and there was nothing more dangerious at bethel then a self righteous new boy.. anyway one beautiful saturday morning, in 1972, we were walking to the factory, mike happen to be walking with me, and he happen to say "god........i would give anything to get out of this city on a day like today"..........i said "well....... i have a car and no place to go.........you have a place to go and no car"...he wasn't quite sure of me, but.............next thing i knew, it's him and me and 4 of his nerdy friends driving to rhode island.. needless to say, it was a great weekend and debbie who had just turned 19 was happy that her brother finally brought someone home with him, who wasn't a nerd like his other friends.
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bebu
This series really should be a book or plugged into a prominent spot online (Freeminds?).
I hope today's Bethelites would be able to read it!
bebu
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bebu
Is this what a black hole feels like?
bebu