Posts by Daniel1555

As some of you have suggested I will take it easy and show my son in the future that people also in our family have different ways of talking to their creator and that we can't say this certain way is the truth.

I thought of a different way handling this prayer situation.

When I will be alone eating with my son, I'll tell him. "Honey, today we won't say a prayer. We will say something really funny." Then I will do a funny table saying with him. He loves funny stuff and he just loves to laugh and giggle.

Then another time when my parents will come, he will maybe ask, that we do the funny table saying.

Then another time I will let my father say a prayer and so on. By doing this, he will see the differences and I can stimulate his independent thinking and also tolerance for different views.

Thanks so much.

20

Prayer with my son before lunch. Your advice / experiences needed!

by Daniel1555 in

jw
friends

dear friends,.

i would like to hear your comments or suggestions on the following:.

a little background info.. i managed to fade completely.

Daniel1555

Dear friends,

I would like to hear your comments or suggestions on the following:

A little background info.

I managed to fade completely. My wife and I are separated and in divorce right now. My wonderful little son is now 2.5 years old and living with his mum who is a devout JW. In fact she tried a lot to reduce my time with him. It didn't work out. At the moment I am 2 days with him all 2 weeks and I am fighting for more time. When we will go to court for our divorce, my lawyer will ask the judge to make sure, that during my visitation time he is with me, even when it conflicts with my wife's kingdom hall meeting time. Also there will be shared custody (as is usual in germany) especially because I want to be involved in all important decisions (also with regard to medical urgencies). Moreover we will ask the judge to state, that she shouldn't hinder my son's relationship to me because of the fact that she views me as an apostate. I think it is important, that I further the relationship of my son to his mum and vice versa (also not talking negative about the other person).

My parents (who are also JW's) are often with me when I visit my son. I have a good relationship to my parents. They know exactly why I left the JW's (or why I am inactive in their eyes). They know that I think the bible is man's word and not inspired of god, they know that I hate the shunning of df / da persons and they in most details know, why I think the borg's view of blood is completely wrong. I even told my mum a few month's ago, that I don't pray to Jehovah anymore, because in the bible he ordered or committed cruelest acts (mass murder, genocide and murder of children and babies). I explained to her, that during all of this, my personal relationship to god became stronger, but that my view of god changed and that he / she is most certainly not the god of the bible. In fact I still believe in a "creator" or a "higher force", I just don't believe in organized religion anymore. I am also very interested in science. I for example believe that evolution is a fact and that human life is much older than the 6000 years as described in the bible. This is for me not in contradiction to the concept of a creator or god.

Sorry for the long introduction.

Now I come to my problem:

When my parents and me are eating lunch with my son, they always want to pray to Jehovah before the meal (as they did in all their life). As I explained before, I hate to pray to a cruel god, and I view "Jehovah" as a cruel god. So until now, when we were together with my son, I always said the prayer, because I don't want my father to pray to "Jehovah" with my son. So as I prayed, I never mentioned the name "Jehovah." I just made it short and used words for a 2 year old, like praying to our "papa", "thanking that we could have fun playing together" or "thanking for the animals" etc. But I always ended the prayer like "through your son Jesus - Amen." Lately however, my mum started saying to my son before my lunch prayer. "Now let's thank "Jehovah."

When I am alone, I never pray before the meal. I think it is an empty tradition, especially always the same endings "through Jesus - Amen." Especially I have problems with it, as I don't believe that Jesus had to die this agonizing death for us. The doctrine of the ransom is something I find very cruel and a manmade doctrine (I believe though that Jesus was an extraordinary person and a "son" of god in the sense that all of us can be "sons" or "daughters" of god). However I don't really want to elaborate on this thought with my parents, that I am technically not even a "christian" (as a christian must believe in the ransom).

So when I pray at those times, and use those endings, I kind of feel like a hypocrite. And I don't want to be something I am not, before my son, especially as my son is still very young and is learning so much and views me as a role model. Moreover he is indoctrinated constantly when he is with my wife. My goal is to strengthen his critical thinking abilities. But on the other hand I also don't want to upset my parents too much.

Moreover I want to show to my son, that we are free "when" and "how" we pray.

Therefore I see 3 options:

1.

No prayer at all when we are eating together with my son.

I would have to explain to my parents again, that I don't pray to "Jehovah." So I can't pray in the way they expect a prayer to be acceptable. Of course they would be free to pray silently for themselves.

It is difficult for me to explain this to them, because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

I maybe could tell them, that I don't want prayer to be just a "tradition", something superficial or a "must." Moreover Jesus said in Matth. 6 that when praying you should go to your private room, shutting the door, pray to your father who is in secret. Maybe I could tell them, that prayer is for me something very personal and private, and that I will do that with my son in other circumstances and not before lunch.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be strange for my son to see, that I don't pray before lunch but that my parents silently pray?

What do you think about this all?

2. a compromise

I pray before lunch, but on my way and most certainly not to Jehovah.

On my personal way of praying, I never say "in the name of Jesus" or "Amen."

I could explain to my parents, that I pray differently and not to Jehovah. Maybe they decide for themselves, that they couldn't share in such a prayer.

Or I could compromise and make a simple prayer and use "in the name of Jesus" and "Amen" just to please my parents.

When doing this, I would need to explain to them, that they shouldn't say "now let's pray to Jehovah" before the prayer.

But somehow I would feel like deceiving myself and my son.

3.

I tell my parents, that I instead of a "regular prayer", I want to introduce another thing before lunch. A funny "table saying" (a short funny verse or saying) or sometimes a children's prayer.

What do you think about this? How would you react in this situation? Did you maybe even make some experiences with that?

How can I tell my parents in a diplomatic way?

(I will go to bed now, so I can reply tomorrow)

4

is the current WT teaching that all prior to jesus death will not go to heaven?

by sowhatnow in

if so would that not make matthew ch 17 vs 3 [transfiguration] a bit confusing to explain?

i mean, where did they come from?

the grave?

Daniel1555

They say the transfiguration is just a vision.

Harder for them to explain would be Hebrews 11:16.

25

I want to carry the microphones"

by stillin in

this was the reason that our 12 year old son gave us for wanting to be baptized.

my wife and i actually agreed that he should wait a little longer, thank god!

by the time he was 13 he was running wild.

Daniel1555

Now we only have "necessary family business" with her, consisting of her sharing the grandchildren with us.

Hi stillin

You heart an your mind tells you how wrong the shunning of your daughter is.

You even mentioned that she is even more moral than witnesses.

I think it must be your goal to change this family situation as soon as possible.

Apologize to your daughter for shunning her and have normal family relations.

You wife has to accept your decisions in this regard. You are the family head.

Tell your wife how you feel about shunning family members. It's not even biblical.

Good luck.

12

Help prevent sons indoctrination.

by WasOnceBlind in

ok so here is the deal, as some of you who might have read my first post might remember, my parents are jw's while i myself have faded.

i have not told them that i don't believe in the borg and i have done my research and concluded it's a bunch of crap.

the main reason i haven't is because it would break my moms heart and probably send her into a deep depression (she suffers from depression).

Daniel1555

You used some smart and thought provoking questions. Continue to further critical thinking with your kid.

I am in a similar situation. However I told my parents how I feel about JW doctrines. I am also afraid to break my parents heart, but I think it is more important that they know my true feelings. They are sad when they think that I left, but they understand why now. We still have a very loving relationship.

When you want the indoctrination or bible study to stop,;you should really open up to your parents.

You will not stop all indoctrination as they will continue to talk with your kid about jehovah. But maybe you can tell them that they must stop "bible study" with him as this is not at all in their authority to do.

But don't be too strict, as you child is aware of all your actions. Most certainly further his desire to question everything.

29

4 New BOEs as of Tuesday 4/28

by Atlantis in

we thank our informant for these documents and hope he/she will remain under the radar safely!.

click the green download button... 2015 april 17, boe (re: meeting medical needs in the foreign-language field).

.. http://wwwb.fileflyer.com/view/gukk6aq.

Daniel1555

In those letters it says that field service group overseers should make sure all in their group have filled in an advance directive form and that the secretary should have an up to date copy.

Wondering if they approach me with this as they know what I think of this crazy doctrine.

27

"Your good example is much needed for the young ones the congregation."

by Yondaime in

hey guys n gals, sorry its been such a long time since i've posted.

lately i've been very busy balancing between my school work and cult activities.

since i've been doing pretty well "spiritually"(enough field-circus hours, attending meetings, underlining my literatrash, reading, praying and serving as the mic-master) my coordinator grabbed me to the side after a meeting and talked to me for twenty minutes straight congratulating me about how good i am doing.. then he paused for a good five seconds and got all serious.. then he proceeded to tell me that the young ones in the hall aren't doing too well.

Daniel1555

Hi Yondaime

If you write like only 2-3 hours on your field service report he won't ask you to become a ms.

I made the mistake and preached too much at that time.

Good luck

27

What I Learned Today

by OneFingerSalute in

just thought i would share what i learned today sitting for several miserable hours at the circus assembly.. while i took "notes" i just cannot stand trying to type out all the details.

so suffice it to say the entire program can be covered with these few observations.. do more!

give more!

Daniel1555

In which talk did they talk about shunning df'd family members?

5

NHS Finally speak out on the Ashya King story.

by nicolaou in

i count brett and nagmeh as personal friends though i've not spoken to them since they left the uk.. my personal interest stated i'm just going to share the link and step back from the discussion.

they are good people, but good people can make mistakes too.

i hope the bbc documentary tonight doesn't demonise them.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-32219005.

Daniel1555

Witness my fury:

It is not right to call them idiots.

I think they are very brave and showed their deep love for their son. I hope so much that Ashya will be fine.

I highly respect Brett Kings actions especially that he officially said that Ashya comes before his religion which means that he would even allow blood.