Posts by ILoveTTATT

10

I had to control my laughter...

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

today at the meeting, during the prayer (to which i did not say "amen" to) the brother said "thank you for everything the faithful and discreet slave do for us.

we know it is because they love us...".

to which i had to really control my laughter cause i was about to burst out laughing... i just smiled, thankfully everyone else had their eyes closed and head down.... .

ILoveTTATT

@Laverite: You would almost have gotten your wish yesterday!! I almost did burst out laughing...

@Open Mind: Hillarious!! Now for your comment, I DID burst out laughing LOL!!

@ Data Dog: I am putting seeds of cognitive dissonance everywhere. Someone today in a JW page commented on today's text, which clearly is for the "anointed"... I asked, wait, how come this text is being applied to the "other sheep" if it clearly refers only to the "anointed"? How do we know when a text applies to us and when it doesn't?

The reply (in Spanish): We are all under one shepherd. What is true, is that a sheepfold is made out of "carneros" and "ovejas"...

If you know Spanish, this is an incredibly redundant statement. "Carneros" is male sheep... "ovejas" is usually referred to as all sheep, but in this case, female sheep.

What this person said was as stupid as saying... true, humanity is made out of male humans and female humans...

(Can I get a double facepalm??)

ILTTATT

31

Protest at district convention in Budapest, Hungary

by cedars in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihncqunkq94.

whatever your thoughts on the shouting, displaying a simple web address is an extremely effective and non-confrontational way of getting the message across - and in this case it looks like hundreds if not thousands of witnesses saw it.. .

cedars.

ILoveTTATT

@Designs: Ever heard of "all roads lead to Rome"?

I personally believe in God (or a higher power, if you will), and somewhat in the Bible, although I do not consider it infallible, I think that there are good things that we can apply from it (Love your neighbor? Do to others as you would like them to do to you? Those are good things!)...

Some of my biggest "cognitive dissonance" moments happened WHILE READING THE BIBLE or PREACHING! It is one of the many things that could wake up a Jehovah's Witness.

Examples in my own life:

While talking to a workmate, who was studying religion (like, as a 4-year degree), we were discussing the Tetragrammaton... discussing the "Jehovah said to my Lord"... and I told him that in the Psalms it did appear like that... He told me at one point, "Read the Bible on your own! For once, just, read the Bible WITHOUT any Jehovah's Witness literature!" -Glad I followed THAT advice!! It opened my eyes! At first, I just started reading it on my own, then when I could not understand something, I would go to the WT CD, then I would see that I would not buy that explanation. Then, in my quest for more knowledge, I started reading Bible commentaries online. At some point or another, questions started getting to me. I don't know when, but one day, it just hit me: WHY do we believe in the Paradise? Is it in the Bible at all?? Which, at some point, led me to JWFacts.com.... and the rest is history ;)

Preaching to others helped tremendously too! Another example: While I was in service, I think I read the scripture in Psalms 37... where it says that the righteous shall posses the earth in the NWT... well, I wanted to prove to the lady that our NWT was similar to other Bibles. What a shock it was for me when I read it from her Bible and it said, The righteous shall inherit the country!! (It was Spanish. "Tierra" = Planet Earth, but it can also mean "country" or "land")

Yet another: Also preaching, also trying to use other people's Bibles, I read from one man's Bible where it reads, in the NWT, "Not the angels, nor the Son, but only the Father"... well the "nor the Son" was not in his Bible! Another shock!

I agree, partly, with the statement "Statistically, the fastests way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible"

I have read the Bible, still believe in God, because that is something that I WANT to believe in (Faith is very personal), don't believe in the Bible as an infallible book, DEFINITELY do not believe in JW's...

Either way... ILTTATT

27

How To Be Subversive While Knowing TTATT And Stuck Inside The Watchtower Corporation Confines?

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

so you found out it is all bs but due to family and friends you don't want to be disfellowshipped and shunned.

you have to go to these rediculous meetings maybe even engage in corporation sponsored magazine drives to get the propaganda into the homes of your neighbor in hopes of making another corporation zombie mystified by childish magical thinking, of a jealous deity that wants you to work for the corporation finacial interest or else die for your lack of corporation loyalty.. it is a stressful sitiuation with all kinds of trip wires one has to beware of in order not to be heading into some back room kangaroo court where obediance to the almighty corporation is the bottom line, and a fair hearing of the facts is last on the list of importance.. one consolation is that one may eventually get friends and family out of this demanding and destructive cult with patients and passage of time.. so what ideas would you like to pass on to readers?

what are some of subversive activities one can engage in while stuck in this nasty bit of mandatory corporation exercises of preaching, selling, and building?.

ILoveTTATT

Please read my original post and my other posts... I am trying to do exactly the same thing!

You should watch "Inception"... the concepts are the same... Inception meant that you make the idea grow on its own without direct input...

JW's have a "militarized brain" where, if they recognize you as a "foreigner" they will attack you... so you have to act like the others in the dream so you are not attacked....

Hope you see the analogies between the movie and getting JW's to see TTATT...

Here's some ideas:

Attack other cults... they will love to chip in their hate for other cults. Perhaps, perhaps, one of them will THINK and say, hey, we do exactly the same thing!! Talk about Southpark (if they by chance have watched it) and Scientology, or talk about how Christian Scientists reject vaccinations... most don't know that JW's rejected vaccinations... so then you might tell them that... AFTER they have critiziced Christian Scientits...

Say comments in the meeting that will get them to THINK... we will be reading Romans 1-3 next week so look up all you can about Salvation by Faith only (Romans 3-4) vs. Salvation by Works+Faith (James 2)... show them that the works were things such as helping others, giving to charity, etc (which will make them see, hopefully, that "works" is NOT necessarily preaching)

Read up on AJWRB about the blood issue... tell them that you were researching what the WT says about blood fractions, and that you went on medical encyclopedias and they said that cryoprecipitate was, essentially, plasma without the water.... and then ask, isn't that weird? That it is a conscience matter to take plasma without the water, and plasma as a whole is prohibited? I don't get it!! (And then, you might say... I guess without the water it is not plasma so it is not blood... but say this only if they get militant)...

ILTTATT

10

I had to control my laughter...

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

today at the meeting, during the prayer (to which i did not say "amen" to) the brother said "thank you for everything the faithful and discreet slave do for us.

we know it is because they love us...".

to which i had to really control my laughter cause i was about to burst out laughing... i just smiled, thankfully everyone else had their eyes closed and head down.... .

ILoveTTATT

Today at the meeting, during the prayer (to which I did NOT say "amen" to) the brother said "Thank you for everything the Faithful and Discreet Slave do for us. We know it is because they love us..."

To which I had to really control my laughter cause I was about to burst out laughing... I just smiled, thankfully everyone else had their eyes closed and head down...

ILTTATT

39

Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so to start... i am still an active jw... but only because i cannot get out yet... i am slowly planning to get out.... i should really read hassan's cult control book... it seems like i am getting everything wrong in trying to help the people i know to know ttatt.. so i will need your help, all of you dear people.. my current, actual beliefs are pretty much agnostic... no belief in any particular dogma, but i believe there is a higher power out there.... there are so many things on my mind... for example,.

1. the fact that no nt manuscript contains the name "jehovah".

2. the blood doctrine.

ILoveTTATT

I want to PM someone, but I cannot!! I click on the mail icon and I can't for the life of me see where the "send a new message" button is!! Also, how can I keep track of replies to threads I have posted on? I have commented on so many and then have lost track of which one it was... and I am curious as to other replies...

Yes, I am a very passionate person... A little too much, this is a problem for me I know U.U

No, I do not live in the US... I cannot get my mom to think for herself, is it me or women (please, I do not mean to be mysoginistic) are an easier prey for the WTS? It seems like the men I have told TTATT to have a much easier time absorbing it than women... maybe because of the feelings/logical idea. (Again, NOT saying that there aren't any very smart women out there, like Barbara)... I am just saying my 2c...

My mom believes in ANY, and I mean ANY BS that ANYONE tells her, and anytime I help her see the truth about any other subject that is not religious, she does not believe me until like 5 other true experts tell her exactly the same thing I had been saying... My mother does not THINK, she accepts BS, and with that pattern, it will be close to impossible to make her see TTATT...

I have 10 times the amount of work to do with my mom than with my dad. My dad will much more easily accept TTATT...

Thanks all!

39

Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so to start... i am still an active jw... but only because i cannot get out yet... i am slowly planning to get out.... i should really read hassan's cult control book... it seems like i am getting everything wrong in trying to help the people i know to know ttatt.. so i will need your help, all of you dear people.. my current, actual beliefs are pretty much agnostic... no belief in any particular dogma, but i believe there is a higher power out there.... there are so many things on my mind... for example,.

1. the fact that no nt manuscript contains the name "jehovah".

2. the blood doctrine.

ILoveTTATT

@jgnat: Thanks for the advice. I understand the matter of free will, but I doubt that anyone who is fully awakened to TTATT will actually stay. If they stay, it is for other reasons such as still wanting to talk to their family, etc... The only "success" is to get my entire nuclear family out, which I have an infinitesimally small chance of achieving... but I will try nonetheless... If I don't get my entire nuclear family out, then perhaps I will have done more damage than good... since I will have, effectively, split up the family (even though it was in reality JW doctrine)... On the other hand, I feel we have a moral right to TRY at least and tell the people!! Not in a direct fashion, but in a very subtle and indirect and slow fashion...

With much patience, love, and understanding, I will be lucky to have a 1% chance to succeed. But I will, if I am alive, I will definitely, 100%, try with the best of my ability!!

ILTTATT

39

Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so to start... i am still an active jw... but only because i cannot get out yet... i am slowly planning to get out.... i should really read hassan's cult control book... it seems like i am getting everything wrong in trying to help the people i know to know ttatt.. so i will need your help, all of you dear people.. my current, actual beliefs are pretty much agnostic... no belief in any particular dogma, but i believe there is a higher power out there.... there are so many things on my mind... for example,.

1. the fact that no nt manuscript contains the name "jehovah".

2. the blood doctrine.

ILoveTTATT

From Wikipedia regarding Holocaust deniers, for example:

Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood (also known as Richard Verrall ). The Supreme Court of Canada found in 1992 that the book "misrepresented the work of historians, misquoted witnesses, fabricated evidence, and cited non-existent authorities."

Sounds very much like the WT

39

Help!! Don't know where to start

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so to start... i am still an active jw... but only because i cannot get out yet... i am slowly planning to get out.... i should really read hassan's cult control book... it seems like i am getting everything wrong in trying to help the people i know to know ttatt.. so i will need your help, all of you dear people.. my current, actual beliefs are pretty much agnostic... no belief in any particular dogma, but i believe there is a higher power out there.... there are so many things on my mind... for example,.

1. the fact that no nt manuscript contains the name "jehovah".

2. the blood doctrine.

ILoveTTATT

I have an idea!

Cognitive Dissonance, for the most part, must be increased slowly. There are many ways, but we must be incredibly clever about it, to increase it. The mental attacks must be, IMHO, made in the form of "I am telling John so that Larry understands"... or in the Nathan-David example where David condemned the man on the analogy, thereby condemning himself.

Here's some ammo, and I want you all to help me brainstorm a lot more!! I already have some great ideas from others, keep them coming!

Movies like: Oblivion, Side Effects, any movie where the character suffers a lot because of some truth that hidden... analyze these with a JW... questions such as, wasn't it weird how the character never found out the truth because he was too afraid of going to the "radiation zone"?

Books like George Orwell's 1984, I can't remember if it was a book or a short story but while learning TTATT I immediately remembered the Farm... I think it was Orwell too...

Another would be showing them an article about people denying the Holocaust and how ridiculous it is, an article that would be "gold" would be one where a "scholar" denies it and tries to pass off "proof" that it didn't happen. If he/she uses the same JW techniques, that would be pure gold!!

Thanks!

ILTTATT

14

The 2013 Special Talk "Does Death End It All"... Spanish version eliminates the word "Nanotechnology"

by Calebs Airplane in

remember this incredibly stupid sentence in the 2013 special talk (posted on this board in recent months)?:.

"despite nanotechnology, humans can neither create life nor restore it.".

well apparently, the english-to-spanish translator (who wrote the spanish version of the 2013 special talk outline) apparently realized that the use of the word "nanotechnology" in this outline was completely irrelevant and childish... so he simply substituted the word "nanotechnology" with the phrase "great scientific advancements".

ILoveTTATT

I am completely bilingual in Spanish and English, and I know of many, many examples where the English and Spanish Watchtowers differ. The latest one I noticed was a disfellowshipping article, where the English had only one extra "do not contact through electronic means" and the Spanish one had "do not contact through e-mail, phone, .... etc..."

I also know a bit of Portuguese and so I have noticed that the Portuguese version is a word-for-word translation from the English, whereas the Spanish one differs quite a bit in language and grammar. Older publications used to be word-for-word but newer publications can significantly differ to the point of being a totally different meaning.

I guess it is because there are 20 different countries and 20 different ways of saying the same thing (that is certainly one possibility)

The other possibility is that the Spanish translators are taking their liberties, effectively creating two different "types" of JW's... Spanish and English speaking.

2

Ideas to increase cognitive dissonance

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

ok so from the help of various people, i now have thought of various ways to increase cognitive dissonance without showing "apostate reasoning"... usually it works by highlighting other beliefs (sorry people if someone here is of any of the faiths i will mention... i do not mean to insult, just to save my family and friends from the wt...) and portraying them as "bad" when we have had exactly the same beliefs at one point!!

(i will try the nathan-david approach... you are the man!!!).

vaccinations: "i find it soooo stupid that some religions reject vaccinations!!

ILoveTTATT

Ok so from the help of various people, I now have thought of various ways to increase cognitive dissonance without showing "apostate reasoning"... usually it works by highlighting other beliefs (sorry people if someone here is of any of the faiths I will mention... I do not mean to insult, just to save my family and friends from the WT...) and portraying them as "bad" when we have had exactly the same beliefs at one point!! (I will try the Nathan-David approach... YOU ARE THE MAN!!!)

For example:

Vaccinations: "I find it soooo stupid that some religions reject vaccinations!! It is so disgusting that people are dying for something that does not even have Biblical significance!!"

(We, until 1952, rejected vaccinations)... I know that most modern JW's have no clue about this, and they LOOOOVE dissing other religions, so I know that most will chip in and join me in agreeing that these religions are stupid.

Another example: Hey, I have a dumb question. Did you know that if you freeze mayonnaise, it separates the mixture? I am wondering when it can stop being called "Real" Mayonnaise if you start removing the fat...

(This is exactly the analogy that the WT uses to reject Plasma and accept Cryoprecipitate, which is in essence just frozen plasma with the water and other portions removed)

If you think of other, TOTALLY INNOCENT AND TOTALLY SUBTLE ways of spreading cognitive dissonance, please let me know!!

Thanks to all you fine people,

ILOVETTATT