Bump for more attention and so people can see Stand Firm disproven with their own reference.
Tuesday
JoinedPosts by Tuesday
-
13
Anyone in the New England Area want to see a wrestling show and donate to Silent Lambs?...
by Tuesday inhey folks,.
so i have a show coming up in west warwick, ri on 5/28.
you can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details.
-
-
-
114
StandFirm Says The Watchtower Society Has Never Lied!
by LostGeneration incheck it out:.
http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.com/2011/04/watchtower-society-has-never-lied.html.
standfirms disclaimer is that the definition of a lie is: "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive"-emphasis added.. of course, other definitions of lie include: .
-
-
Tuesday
In the interest of making this more of a discussion instead of simply quoting things that the WT Society has gotten wrong. Let's say that Stand Firm's logic holds true. One does not lie if they don't know they're lying. This brings a couple interesting questions:
Can a group be false prophets if they believe what they're teaching?
The bible says that if someone says something is going to happen but then it doesn't in the name of the Lord they are false prophets. So if the theory about lying is correct then that could also apply for False Prophets and therefore all those religions that JWs talk about teaching incorrect things they wouldn't be false prophets or part of Babylon the Great because they believed these things to be true.
On top of that, if Satan didn't know that God was going to kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden then he wasn't lying when he said "You positively will not die, upon eating from the tree you will become like God knowing good and evil." God later confirmed this in Chapter 3 of Genesis. So therefore according to Stand Firm's argument Satan isn't the father of the lie.
Thoughts?
-
19
djeggnog, YOU were a professional musician...answer THIS non-religious question.
by the pharmer indon't worry, this should be an easy elementary question, especially for a former professional musician.
(those of you wondering why i ask, i wonder just how stubbornly he will hold on to his false statement -- one of many -- even though it is a relatively benign and non-religious topic.
how many intervals in a harmonic minor scale, djeggnog?
-
-
Tuesday
I was in a punk band and I'll be honest I never focused on that kind of stuff. We pretty much just played as loudly and as obnoxiously as possible.
-
13
Anyone in the New England Area want to see a wrestling show and donate to Silent Lambs?...
by Tuesday inhey folks,.
so i have a show coming up in west warwick, ri on 5/28.
you can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details.
-
-
Tuesday
A Witness can go directly to the police in a case of child molestation, even if by a fellow Witness.
Hmmm, then why do I personally know so many people that the EXACT opposite happened. I can point you in their direction if you want. Akashafur, Bananagraveyard, Jax252000, YahweyToHell, all on youtube. Send them a message, I'm sure they'd love to tell you all about it. Then there's the folks in my congregation that it happened to.
These I'm taking together because you're mis-reading the policy.So even after only one child is molested (although usually more than one is already abused by the time the person is exposed), the person can be disfellowshipped. And, no matter what, since freedom to go to the police is absolute, the molester should be in jail.
Also, should further wrongdoing come to light during the trial it would be necessary for the matter to be re-examined, as is true of any judicial matter when additional wrongdoing is discovered.I put in bold the part you're mis-reading. Should ANY FURTHER wrongdoing come to light. Not on the same crime my man. So if during a trial a second victim comes forward THAT can be used for a judicial committee meeting. Nothing involving forensics, nothing involving a doctor's examination whatsoever.
Silentlambs claims that the current policy was a result of their pursuing the matter, even those this is a clear lie since this policy existed at least as early as 1991 and Silenlambs didn't exist until 2000. They also lied about Witness doctrine causing men to murder their families.
And you're lying that there wasn't a major policy change right around the time of the Dateline episode regarding the subject. So why should I listen to you? I've got the Body of Elders letters from around that time as well, you and I both know there was a HUGE shift in paradigm.Maybe you could donate here instead: snapnetwork.org
Oh you mean I should donate to an organization that shines the light on the Catholic molestation problem but doesn't mention the JW one at all. You mean take the focus off the JW problem? As I mentioned before shove that head in the sand a little bit further Stand Firm.
This website is an excellent resource for telling the other side of the story than Silentlambs': http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/default.html
That website is a pile of shit. I've deconstructed it's awful arguments that are just STREAMING with logical fallacies regarding 607 BCE and the whole UN NGO thing. The ENTIRE 607 article is a causation/correlation fallacy and on top of that if you search the web you'll find that he's all but admitted that he didn't print the entire story about the UN NGO situation. On top of that the webiste used to allow comments and a way to contact the author to ask questions, now you'll notice it doesn't. Why? It's because as an apologist the entire site is laughable at best and gross distortion and lies at worst.
Just in this article here that you posted in the chapter "If Only One Witness" it reads:
Did you see that the elders cannot take action "within the congregation"? So although the elders cannot take CONGREGATIONAL action judicially speaking, this does not mean that the elders do NOTHING.
So what do they do?
1. It is reported to the Watchtower Society.
Wow, that's great, very helpful. Now let's read on because your own source here shows that you are lying about the dates of things and it corroborates Silent Lambs's story. Let's keep going.
But there is another reason why it is reported to the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses. The name of the accused is put into the database and kept by the Watchtower Society. Should he ever be accused again then the matter would be established at the mouth of two witnesses and judicial action could be taken.
So I call bullshit here because then cases like Rick McClean wouldn't exist. I digress, we've got to keep going in this article because it's a great "other side to the story" that you told me to read.
2. If there is a mandatory reporting law it is reported to the authorities.
Yup, only if it's mandatory. Remember the first thing they do is report to the Legal department and they will be advised if they're not in a reporting state to not take that second step.
3. If a child is in possible danger it is reported to the authorities.
That 1988 letter is in regards to physical abuse not sexual abuse. The letter also then goes on to state how if the child is noticed as being abused at school and they are a known JW it could prove to "bring reproach upon Jehovah's name".
4. Elders offer to go with the child to the authorities.
This is the part I love, check out the quote AND THE DATE.
December 1, 2000 letter: "If the complainant is a child the elder might offer to accompany him or her to discuss the situation with a parent (but not the alleged abuser) or to one of the above authorities."
Whoa, whoa, whoa! I thought you said Silent Lambs were liars and they didn't actually effect any of the policy? Did you not just say that... hold on let me check again...
Silentlambs claims that the current policy was a result of their pursuing the matter, even those this is a clear lie since this policy existed at least as early as 1991 and Silenlambs didn't exist until 2000.
You did... you did claim that. So wait are you a liar? Or are you so ignorant of the facts YOU'RE PRESENTING TO ME that you'll give me a source that proves you wrong. Hold on... there's more from your source you gave me.
5. The victim or family can report it to the authorities without sanctions.
And a February 15, 2002 letter states: "Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities. If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make and that there are no congregation sanctions for either decision. That is, no elder will criticize anyone who reports such an allegation to the authorities."
What was that date again? Oh yeah 2002. So this was in place BEFORE Silent Lambs?
Look man there's even more to your source you gave me that is contradicting what you're saying here. Do you really want me to go into all the logical fallacies that the guy is using here. The entire thing is something called "Argument from Selective Observation", he's citing certain articles that say one thing but he's ignoring TONS of articles that say the exact opposite. I have a Watchtower CD Rom I'll be more than happy to sit there and go quote for quote with you showing how use of many other articles will show how the matters are usually handled.
So the long and the short of it is that I have a show coming up in West Warwick, Rhode Island at the Elks Lodge that is going to be a killer show. I'm going against Triplelicious whom I've wrestled a few times before and you can see a sample from our last match here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4xwsd_tim-kilgore-vs-triplelicious-plw_sportIf you buy tickets from me $2 will go to Silent Lambs and just for Stand Firm I'll match whatever the donation is to Silent Lambs and send it to RAINN.
Everyone come down to NCW and have a great time!
-
13
Anyone in the New England Area want to see a wrestling show and donate to Silent Lambs?...
by Tuesday inhey folks,.
so i have a show coming up in west warwick, ri on 5/28.
you can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details.
-
-
Tuesday
If there is another witness to the same type of sin on the part of the accused, this would be basis for forming a judicial committee."
Stand Firm, this means there has to be another victim before anything is done. This is still a horrible policy.
What if there's no witness to the child's accusation but they have a doctor's report showing that abuse took place?
That doesn't qualify as a second witness does it? It would just be waiting for a second victim to speak up, right?
Sorry man, this is a horrible policy that needs to change. I know there's an organization www.ajwrb.org which is active Jehovah's Witnesses wanting to change the policy on blood. If there were an organization of active Jehovah's Witnesses that wanted to change this policy I would be donating to them.Unfortunately it seems that most JWs just want to bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't happen, that elder's don't advise that you'd be "bringing reproach upon Jehovah's name" to go to the authorities or only will even say something if there's a reporting law in the state.
Stand Firm, do you think it's a good policy that if a child comes forward saying they were molested you should wait until another child comes forward to take action? What if your child was the first one, would you think the elders did the right thing by not acting until your friend's child was molested?
Sorry, not buying what you're selling Stand Firm. If it's the organization that's bothering you that I'm donating to then point out another one that is specifically about changing the molestation policy in the JW organization and I'll match whatever I get in ticket sales that I donate to Silent Lambs and send it to that organization too. I'd say I'd be donating to RAINN but I already donate to them once a month.
-
13
Anyone in the New England Area want to see a wrestling show and donate to Silent Lambs?...
by Tuesday inhey folks,.
so i have a show coming up in west warwick, ri on 5/28.
you can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details.
-
-
Tuesday
Stand Firm - Looking to increase awareness. I don't need the $2 I'm going to get off the tickets so why not increase awareness of the INCREDIBLE problem of child molestation in the organization while getting people to check out a great wrestling show.
It's a win-win for everyone. I volunteer at the local Red Cross when I want to help hungry people, I do it at least once a month.
-
13
Anyone in the New England Area want to see a wrestling show and donate to Silent Lambs?...
by Tuesday inhey folks,.
so i have a show coming up in west warwick, ri on 5/28.
you can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details.
-
-
Tuesday
Hey Folks,
So I have a show coming up in West Warwick, RI on 5/28. You can check out the website www.thencwonline.com in the upcoming events section for all the details. It's going to be a great show. The promoter in the interest of getting attendance up for the venue (which is notoriously hard to get advertisments out for) is offering that any performer selling tickets can keep $2 of the ticket price for themselves. In my case I've decided that any tickets that I sell I'll be giving my $2 to Silent Lambs.If anyone wants to attend a killer wrestling show, see a *caugh* Famous *caugh* Youtube personality, and have part of their money go to a worthy cause send me PM with an e-mail that I can follow up with, You can also find me on facebook if you want to communicate through there. There's also a link to the event on facebook check under NCW Spring Slam!
Hope to see alot of ... er... anonymous faces :)
-
16
The Circle of Apostasy is Complete...
by Tuesday ini'm still somewhat laughing about this, i get a facebook message today with a link to the following video.... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=corqwanyuos.
they then tell me about how cool it is to have a vast apostate army and how every ex-jw should join.
-
-
Tuesday
That is certainly not cool! What cowards. I'm sure they're bluffing but I don't blame you for pulling the plug.
I stopped couting after I broke 20 death threats, I called the police on six of them. I know at least one was an active JW, I didn't press charges on any of them because who knows if they were legit or not. I'm sure the scare of being asked by a Policeman about your history on the internet on an apostate channel was probably enough to deter them.
-
16
The Circle of Apostasy is Complete...
by Tuesday ini'm still somewhat laughing about this, i get a facebook message today with a link to the following video.... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=corqwanyuos.
they then tell me about how cool it is to have a vast apostate army and how every ex-jw should join.
-
-
Tuesday
I remember what you're talking about BP, it wasn't called that though. It was something like infiltration, or I might be thinking of the other support forum.
I've kind of lost the motivation to do the youtube thing, I just had so many threats and people threatening to hurt my children I'm just not cool with that. I still love that concept though, it's such a cool idea. I wish others would pick up the ball and run with it.
-
16
The Circle of Apostasy is Complete...
by Tuesday ini'm still somewhat laughing about this, i get a facebook message today with a link to the following video.... .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=corqwanyuos.
they then tell me about how cool it is to have a vast apostate army and how every ex-jw should join.
-
-
Tuesday
I politely disagree. I was here before you started posting, and the term was already being used. You're not the originator.
I'm not the originator BoganLewis is. If you do a google search of the site there are four pages of results all of which are discussing the youtube thing. The older material on the site seems to be able to be searched because if I do a search with terms from my first post something like 7 years ago I can find it. If you can find something more power to you because half an hour later of searches and the only stuff I find with the term "vast apostate army" are all in regards to the Vast Apostate Army I reference here.
When can I enlist !!!
You already are, if you're speaking out about the organization you're a member :)
Essentially it's all about public knowledge, the more the public knows about Jehovah's Witnesses and their teachings/policies the more the Vast Apostate Army wins. That's the power of cults, they fly under the radar with everyone thinking they're harmless etc.
