Posts by Tuesday

65

I walked out of an Elder's Meeting

by AlmightyDog in

well here goes... i apologize in advance if this turns into a long and disjointed rant, but i just have to begin typing in order to keep from exploding.

i realize that what im about to say could seriously jeopardize my anonymity, but i think ive reached the point that i just dont care.

i want this to be over.. let me explain what caused me to rip up a letter and get up and walk out in the middle of an elders meeting two weekends ago.. our boe has been embroiled in a nasty fight for the past 2 years over a certain brothers business dealings.

Tuesday

Well I would hate for you to lose your family over something like this, I feel that you can still give the truth and not only walk away unscathed but I'm betting you can walk away from this held in high regard. What you said here is pretty much perfect, just tweak it a bit.

I know the CO will want to discuss this with me during his visit, and I’m not sure I’ll be able to keep my feelings to myself, nor am I sure I even want to. I know that expressing my true feelings would get me DF’d and with that I stand to lose my family, but I just can’t continue on the way things are. I am even considering beating them to the punch and DA’ing. I have so much respect for those of you who have already ripped of the band-aid. Thank you all for your encouragement and examples.

So when the CO pulls you aside and asks why you turned in your resignation, put what you said here.

I was appointed as an elder a little over a year ago, almost a year into this mess, at age 30. Because of this issue, I have never been to a civil elder’s meeting. The division is deep and causes the brothers to speak to each other with contempt. This has caused me to see that the BOE is NOT directed by Holy Spirit, and that realization caused me to give myself permission to begin researching more about the org. So, over the last 6 months or so, I have become convinced that this is not God’s org., and I want out, but it’s extremely difficult due to family in (I posted more of my family story a couple of months ago).

Here's what I would tweak though:

"As you know I was appointed as an elder a little over a year ago, dropped right into the middle of this mess at age 30. Since I've been an elder it's been a warzone in every elder's meeting and I feel like I need to dig a trench just to survive it. Every elder talks to each other with absolute contempt, I'm really struggling with seeing how these men were appointed with holy spirit to lead the congregation when they can't even lead themselves into agreement. I just feel like at this time, until this issue goes away permanently I don't feel comfortable going to elder's meetings and if I'm not attending elder's meetings I don't think that I should be an elder. If the issue is resolved and the elders start acting civilly with one another I would consider becoming an elder again."

This basically puts the ball in their court, if they say something to the effect of "We'll make sure the matter drops", just tell them "That's been said numerous times and I'd like to believe you but I'm going to have to see it." The CO would understand the situation is very stressful and a newer elder wouldn't want to see something like that anyway, so I'm sure he would be sad that someone was stumbled but would understand why you're stepping down. The rumour mill would run wild for a while but after that dies down, you'll be treated with respect and then maybe you can start a fade.

85

July 15th WT- Don't Research " False Stories " - Inspired by Satan !

by flipper in

jw
friends

i know the poster lost generation made a fantastic thread on this july 15th apostate article, however - i noticed some very powerful points on pg.

17 paragraphs 9 - 11 which weren't brought out that i feel needed to be touched on.

as was brought out in his thread this article told jw's to avoid apostates because they are " mentally diseased " allegedly and to avoid their web sites, not read their literature, watch t.v.

Tuesday

RAISE FRIVOLOUS QUESTIONS THAT LEAD TO POINTLESS RESEARCH.

Hmmm, methinks that I've got a fan on the writing department.

97

Everything In The Universe Was Created By Absolutely Nothing.

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

this is the purest example of an oxymoron.

repeat this sentence over and over again and you will realize why it's impossible for some people to accept the big bang model.

.

Tuesday

The question becomes, is the Big Bang itself non-contingent. Paul Steinhardt (Professor of Science at Princeton University) and others are working on models, using deeply abstracted tools in mathematical physics (built on ideas that are extrapolations of other ideas that seem to be implied by other ideas that might be a mathematical, maybe even physical consequence of other ideas - none of which have been observed, that might possibly account for some of the things that we see.

http://www.physics.princeton.edu/~steinh/

Thanks for the quote mine Maze. You've also grossly misinterpreted mathematical terminology for layman's phrases. Theory mean two different things in scientific terms and layman's terms.

There is not now nor could there possibly be (in any remotely meaningful way) anything that qualifies as genuine evidence for these types of theories. They are somewhat elegant theories, but they are not remotely "science" - it is mathematical philosophy at best. String theory alone may one day find some evidence, but the pre-Big Bang models based on string theory are fundamentally un-empirical.

String theory is completely falsifiable. Essentially one is solving for x, if you can accept that you can find an unknown by using geometry (finding the length of a side of a triangle by using the pythagorean theorum) then you should be able to accept the findings of theoretical physics.

Furthermore, as it currently stands, those models appear to be fundamentally incompatible with current cosmological observations, hence the enormous number of non-empircally based ideas that go along with them.

Where are you getting this from because it's been clearly observed that the universe is expanding in exact conjunction with the big bang model.
And, the Ekpyrotic/Cyclic models that they are working on end up positing extraordinarily complicated mathematical "entities", or "bulks" (fancy word for bigger universes) that require a tremendous number of non-trivial assumptions that are based on nothing other than "to make it work out".

Please give an example of these non-trivial assumptions because mathematics is even more cut-throat than science is. For a paper to be a peer-reviewed accepted study it must undergo the scrutiny of millions of mathemeticians.

So sure, you can hold out for one of these theories. But you don't get to pretend that you're sticking with empirical or scientific ideas. You're at least as religious as any hyper fundamentalist in any religion.

Ah the science is a religion argument, made completely invalid by the fact all science and math is falsifiable. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it does not work out or make sense.
I am a theist because I believe it provides the greatest metaphysical explanatory power with the fewest non-trivial assumptions. I feel that naturalism, while a plausible and logically consistent worldview, ultimately runs into too many difficulties to be taken seriously.

Yes it's the most plausable, we have never oberserved a being outside of our natural realm yet we are to believe he exists. We have never observed anything without a beginning yet we are to believe he exists. We have never seen anything created ex-nilo yet we are to believe the entire universe came to be in such a way. These are few non-trivial assumptions, you are assuming that something you have never seen or even can come up with the mathematical equation to explain exists and not just exists but has done something that we have never seen or have a mathematical equation for. Sure, very plausable and logically consistent.

If one insists on holding out for a scientific answer, then you will never find the answer. Any proposed explanation for the origin of the universe will be metaphysical and outside the reach of empirical science, whether it is theism, a string derived model, or turtles all the way down.

Again Law of Conservation of energy, it's not outside the reach of empirical science. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed, therefore it has always been in existence even if it's in it's energy form (Theory of Relativity).

27

Must Read Message I got on youtube....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks so i got this actual message to my youtube account i believe everyone would find really funny:.

tim,.

i had a visit today of some local jehovah's witnesses and one of them (i think his name was brandon west) said that he had met you in new york city.

Tuesday

OMG, you certainly woke a sleeping giant, (Propaganda Techniques)! It's so cool to help someone with the truth about the truth and then have them to go on and help others, isn't it?

I know, he's a bigger apostate than I'll ever be LOL. He's helped alot of people out from what I understand, especially since he's from the Patterson area. I'd love to see like a flowchart or something tracing back people that helped others out of the borg. If it weren't for Doc Bob's site and Steve McRoberts book I might not have left either.

27

Must Read Message I got on youtube....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks so i got this actual message to my youtube account i believe everyone would find really funny:.

tim,.

i had a visit today of some local jehovah's witnesses and one of them (i think his name was brandon west) said that he had met you in new york city.

Tuesday

PropagandaTechniques

116

I've Decided That It'll Be Best For Me To Return To The Kingdom Hall.

by Philadelphia Ponos in

jw
friends

after carefully evaluating the my current life situation, i've come to the conclusion that returning to the hall will be best for me.

i simply just don't fit in with the rest of the world.

i don't drink, smoke, have sex, go to clubs, listen to worldly music, watch movies, or gamble.

Tuesday

Funny I'm the same as you I don't drink, smoke or have sex, go to clubs, the only stuff I watch are kids shows for my kids. I'm stressed at my job just like everyone else, and guess what? I just found friends that are alot like me. I can't force myself to believe something I don't believe just for my social circle. I guess I just can't be a hypocrite... sorry.

27

Must Read Message I got on youtube....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks so i got this actual message to my youtube account i believe everyone would find really funny:.

tim,.

i had a visit today of some local jehovah's witnesses and one of them (i think his name was brandon west) said that he had met you in new york city.

Tuesday

But I am still not sure. I guess I have a sort of fatalistic notion regarding JWs leaving. That pretty much people will leave if and when they are ready. Information, websites and community might aid the exit process but rarely prompt the exit decision. Have I been looking at it wrong?

I wouldn't say necessarily, people with doubts have them pushed over the edge when they see someone talking about their exact doubts then look and see no responses whatsoever to the doubt.

I'll tell you the most famous of my deconversion stories because he's told it and himself is a very well known apostate now. I had a person that wanted to just debate and debate and debate me. Every point he made I would point out how it was a logical fallacy, what the logical fallacy was and why it was not an answer. Finally he said something about how since I wasn't baptized I couldnt' call myself a JW to which I countered with that I was raised a JW, had to be separated in school, and I had even had to take the stand in court affirming I was a JW so a blood transfusion would not be performed in an upcoming operation. I didn't hear from him forever (apparently I had unwittingly blocked him) then I get a message from another account say that he had left.

In between our last discussion, since he couldn't respond to me he finally sat down and started reading about logical fallacies. He was reading the Watchtower in front of the congregation and there was a logical fallacy staring him right in the face. Once he saw one he couldn't stop seeing them in everything he was reading by them and it made him realize what he had wasn't the truth it was just another religion making excuses for it's bad behavior.

I think my series is a bit different than others on youtube because most are saying "JWs are wrong and here's why" which mine are more "Look I don't think this teachings is right, here's the reasons that have given me a doubt, do you have the answer to make this teaching make sense".

47

Sunday Drama-"Young Ones-Be Discreet and Wise"

by CaptainSchmideo in

jw
friends

i briefly touched on the drama in another post, but i felt i needed to share in greater detail this latest masterpiece.. .

this was the drama on sunday.

the story alternates between the story of joseph, son of jacob, and a witness kid (forgot his name;billy?

Tuesday

Where were these girls when I was in High School? Seriously the ones that take it as a challenge to nail the quiet, innocent ones. I think I was a JW at the wrong time...

The worst part about this scenario is that the older JWs are saying "Wow this could really happen, how scary".

27

Must Read Message I got on youtube....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks so i got this actual message to my youtube account i believe everyone would find really funny:.

tim,.

i had a visit today of some local jehovah's witnesses and one of them (i think his name was brandon west) said that he had met you in new york city.

Tuesday

How did you get the figure of 460?

From the personal messages I've received on youtube of people saying "Your videos have made me leave". I was keeping rigorous notes because I found it incredible until right around 400, then I had to take a break from youtube and have kept a bit of a running tab in my head since then.

At least from the way it sounds 500 isn't really an inplausable number since I think most of the folks commenting here haven't specifically sent me a facebook or a youtube message to tell me. I actually spoke on one of the conference calls and someone there told me how my videos were the first thing they viewed and moved them to leaving.

I have to say as well it's very overwhelming when people are giving me compliments on the videos as I quite literally thought no one would even watch them, I never thought it would kind of grow to what it has. Just hearing that others have benefited from the videos I've made gives me a great, big smile across my face.

Hopefully I'll get off my lazy ass and make some more soon.

PunkofNice I'm so glad someone benefitted from that generation video, I was hoping it would have more of an effect than it did.

27

Must Read Message I got on youtube....

by Tuesday in

jw
friends

hey folks so i got this actual message to my youtube account i believe everyone would find really funny:.

tim,.

i had a visit today of some local jehovah's witnesses and one of them (i think his name was brandon west) said that he had met you in new york city.

Tuesday

I think some of your videos are pretty good. But surely you jest when you say 500 left the Watchtower mainly because of them? I would be happy to be proved wrong.

It's not at 500, it's about about 460 or so. I used to keep track, bearing in mind that my videos have been viewed more than 300 thousand times, that's not that big of a number. Every time I come online or I go on a call, or especially when people found my facebook account I was getting messages saying my videos helped people out. See above :)

Thanks for the compliments guys, I'm really glad my videos could help you guys out.