Search, Reborn and other in left field souls. I sinisterly hope that the other so called "pro war" folk such as myself took my advice and have been fishing motorcycling four wheeling and have been having fun with family and friends. This side of you all and JWD is a complete waste of time. I have taken people to my sweetholes who have not been fishing in 20 years. My son is a "fisherman" as he calls himself now. We just finished a steak and fish feed tonight. (A party) I have been offroading of late and just brought out the chris craft cleaned in off and fired it up. It will go into the drink next week. I have taken a few friends up to the shooting range and taught them how to use a .45 and other weapons. I am going to take up another guy next week. That I am not going to hash this nonsense over with you yet again and you take that as being right shows how desperate you are to be right. I feel sorry for you all; Like I do others trapped in the need to be right. Simon, don't worry someday Bush will not be the US president in power. Someday, but not today. Love you guys but I have to go do some work and then try to sleep. There is much motorcycling to do tomorrow. (My son loves getting a ride to school on it. VERY COOL)
Jayson
JoinedPosts by Jayson
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865
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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Political campaigns disgust me
by Reborn2002 ini do not care if you endorse the republican party, democrats, independents, or even the green party.
but to see such inordinate amounts of money go into campaigns disgusts me.
the economy is flailing and people are homeless and starving, all the while these fatcats live high off the hog and mingle at dinners while kissing one another's asses.. this is not a post directed specifically at any candidate.
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Jayson
I vote absentee ballot. Campaign money is wasted on me. I'm done before the lies I mean ads come out.
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865
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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Jayson
D. They are screwing with you. You already hashed this in great detail presenting reality as opposed to sensationalism and opinion. They ignored you then and they will ignore you now. I think we would have better luck and time better spent trying to get a tree to listen to ALL the facts and not rush to judgment than to carry on here. I tried to present facts, they were ignored and I was insulted and useless fighting was the end result. I even attempted putting forward all sides. That was also ignored. The minds of some were made up before this thread was started. They are right we are wrong case closed. Remember they are the judge. As the saying goes you can only lead the horse to water. (let it go)
T H your impeach banner means that no one should take anything you say serious. It is nothing more than pathetic propaganda aimed to start a fight. But I guess it suits somes tastes here so I'm sure it will be allowed stay up.
Search I have yet to watch Panarama but I will.
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What is Truth?
by Victor_E inreading a couple of threads in relation to the work im doing got me to ask the question.
what is truth?
i had a lawyer this weekend in one of my workshops that could not accept the concept of relative truth.
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Jayson
Truth is who you are.
Truth is what you want.
Truth is the thing that you find worth living for.
Truth is like happiness. I can tell you what happy people are like. matt 5: 3-11
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865
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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Jayson
"im sorry, but i just cant agree with you that the "u.s. changed the rules"........like i said in my last post, the ENTIRE u.n. security council (including, yes, france) supported a preemptive strike against iraq....what they didnt agree on was the timing of it. if france didnt support a preemptive invasion, they wouldve voted "no" for resolution 1441........theres no getting around the fact that res.1441 called for military action if iraq did not comply. whether or not iraq complied fast enough was where all the hair splitting came into play.....half of the u.n. thought it was time, the other half did not. the half that did think it was time, acted."
"first off, i dont think youve really read my posts on the issue as a whole......if you had, youd see that i have indeed bent toward the other side on plenty of aspects of it. i agree that we need to look at both sides, and i agree that most absolutely refuse to do this. can i understand why so many fear the governmental power? absolutely....becuase i fear it as well. i fear the reprecussions of the new precedent, and i dont for one second think that everything that comes out of this is going to be flowers and rainbows. sometimes the good outways the bad.....and my hope is that this will ring true in regards to whats taken place in iraq. i think the jury is still out though, and it could very well come back to haunt the world at some point."
D. I have read your posts I promise. But I am asking you to look at it through W. Europe's eyes. From "Their" point of veiw. It's scary I know but try it. Their argument is so simple it just takes a second; Their scared. And, "the jury is still out" isn't that what has been said over and over? I agree with you. Too bad this did not end it on page one. -
865
WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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Jayson
Dubla,
I just want the thread to end. In the start I tried to validate the other side. But I honestly think they wanted a fight. It would be nice to try to have a consensus. Someone needs to see both sides. There are more than one [side] here.
"Yesterdays" standards were "clear & present danger." That term has been around as justification for the use of force since like the 1850's. Iraq did pose a danger but was it a "clear & present one?" There is so much room for debate. It is a pandora's box. Crossing the line that the US did, that could still lead to a pandemic war. We have to remember that there are a lot of people who are really scared. And there are others who just hate Bush. Last (I speak of) are those who want to and work to understand the big picture. (They can be of either of the other 2) The US did change the rules. They did shut France out in the UN as much as the French stood in the way to protect Saddam's butt.
A lot of people think that the US are the good guys. And "They" those who oppose the US are the bad guys. I know that Saddam is the bad guy (or was) but, I also know that there are no angles here. We support the concepts of a preemptive strike & invasion. This is a big deal. There is no turning back. Saying "Well, I was wrong." That won't cut it. As where Simon's team has that luxury at any time. They can say "Well, we were mislead by the misinformation of the BBC and others."
We support a very serious change in US policy abroad and at home. We no longer stand by the principles of "Clear & Present Danger." I can understand why so many fear the saber rattling & the Governmental power. Can you?
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WoMD ... so where are they?
by Simon innow, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
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Jayson
1. Rebuild containment to last long term
3. Covert operations (coup d' e'tat)
4. Create another Afghan situation by arming Kurds and Southern Shieks.
5. Full scale invasion which will remove the Iraqi regime, scour the country for WMD, and rebuild a stable, prosperous Iraq.
"The Threatening Storm." Kenneth Pollak. P.xxix-xxx
Dubla,
I posted these options earlier. (Not that anyone cared) These were the choices as people who see "doing nothing but bitch" as not an option. I'm going to give you your debate. Not because I think the war was unnessesary or wrong but because I can't believe that some people can't set aside petty ideology and look at the "big picture." Their best argument against the war lies there IMO. [in the B P]
The US made the choice of a preemptive invasion. This is a new chapter in American forigen policy. Panama and the sorts is not the same. This was a full scale military invasion into a country that we were currently hostile with but not at war with. Congress did approve it but that still does not win the debate. In no way can the concept of "clear and present danger" be met. It just can't. I understand that the problem with this concept is that it means that any country that "feels" threatened has the right to attack. Which the answer is a sound NO. 1) The US may choose to stop them. 2) Iraq is an anomaly. This was really not sold as an issue to the global public. Probably because people like you and I don't need to hear it. We understand that. And the other side like Simon's debate team have no interest in exploring the history of the region the politics involved for the last 30 year and more than the TV offers as info. Their minds are made up. (Really) It is a waste of time.
So Dubla WMD or not how do you justify a preeminate invasion by yesterdays standards? IMO you can't; we have supported writing a new chapter in American and world history. We can't take it back. Nor would I want to. -
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If you could spend a whole day with anyone .......
by azaria indead (resurrected ) or alive who would you choose?.
mood barometer: a little melancholy, but basically .
every once in a while i think of who i would like to meet.
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Jayson
myself
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today i hit pay dirt with 2 jw 's
by johnny cip ini see 2 sisters today inj the fs .. so stop and start working them, they are so happy i know much about the wt.
i went into some thing about selling mag's etc.
and all of a sudden they went wild on how at the hall the co or somebody was asking for thousands of $'s for an assembly .
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Jayson
SHHHHHh!!!
Be vedy vedy quite. JohnnyC is hunting dubitts
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LET"S START OVER,,,
by kls ini know there are bad feelings running here but it has to stop now.this forum and all on it are hurt in some way.i come here for information and a smile when things get bad.if it was not for this place i would not know all the lies of the wt or what they are pulling next.i finally feel i am not alone in dealing with a loved one in this cult and emotionly i am getting stronger thanks to you all.everyone here is needed, you all provide information ,either emotionily or about the org.
that may help someone.we are not the org.we are of group of healing and we need each other to stick together .i can see the trolls just loving this and instead of helping them get out of the org.
this will show them we are no better.please make this the loving place all want to join.we are all some of us have.today is a new day,let's start over.please!
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Jayson
It's just a fire guys. It will burn itself out eventually. Better to get it out now and not have flair ups forever. You can bet that trolls with love it. So what? (they suck) It is not always going to be lovey dovey, there are some hawks here. God bless em both. A while ago I suggested people go fishing. I leave tomorrow.