i went shopping in two different supermarkets at the weekend.
i wanted to buy some apples.
english apples.
I live in the Apple Capital of the world. WTF are apples from new zeland doing in my supermarkets!?
Look for a local warehouse that sells your local crops. If you don't have one then look into opening one. They can be very profitable.
Jayson (Of the capitalism rocks class)
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
Me thinkith that AlanF and ThiChi are under friendly fire...Me thinkith they are on the same side. Me hopeth that they re read posts to see that generalization of IT information makes propaganda a choice in free countries. You don't have to listent to one source or one opinion but you also can choose too. Some countries like un IRAQ did not have freedom of anything accept to shut the hell up. I hope the US/UK fix that.
We need to stop using Jecques Eullul's ideas of what propaganda is. Darn those French!
Drudge is an example although I don't know what it/he says cause I don't read him.
And yes Simon's question is a fair one. WoMD ... so where are they? Answer, Stand by.
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
I apologise. I did request people tone down the war topics and am guilty of ignoring my own advice.It's either post on here or shout at the TV and that just makes me feel old
Simon I hope you can see that many people here are trying to be very polite and rational. I fail to see how this thread is full of ugly tone. (Some kodos are in order?)
As you say that I (speaking as probushusa) consider WoMD are of no consequnce? I wonder how you can think that? Of course they are! Maybe more now than before. I the book I keep prostituting in goes to great lengths about how Saddam is probably no likely to give his prize to Terror organizations because he can't be sure if they will use them as he wanted them used. So now finding them my be more important than before. Because a desperate Iraqi most wanted might do anything to get the hell out of there. You are right! And, I as well as any rational thinking person want the WMD found! I believe they do exist and always have. They need to be found; They must be found. Not because of petty politics and who is right and who is wrong, but because these are very bad things. It seems that no matter what is done the bad is X10 and the good is outright dismissed or not even commented on. Lets say that they exist and are not found. At some point would they not leak and become a contaminant? If they exist we need to find them. If we can't do it then we need the UN's help. But it's been days please simon give us a chance. Have a penny of faith, please give us a reasonable chance to fail.
Do you get most of your info from the BBC? Are you aware that they admit that they have been telling half truths about Iraq. They had too in order to say in Baghdad. CNN has told such horrible stories of what their reporters went through; About the minders everywhere and the torture and executions of anyone who said the wrong thing. At Easter my brother's girlfriend was positive that if Iraq had WMD we know exactly where they are. If they moved them to Syria at any point in 12 years we would know about it. When I asked her what she knows that I don't she just said "I refuse to believe that Saddam or anyone can do anything and us not know about it." I only wish I had that much confidence in Bush and the US defense team. I just don't think that they are that smart or powerful. I wish they were. What I don't understand is if it is true that the BBC has been less than truthful how can they still have the moral high ground with their viewers? The Reporters name was Woods and I will see if I have info if you want it.
Simon have you read some books on Middle Eastern politics or even the whole history of the region? I mean the big picture and not just the last year or two. You should.
Last on WMD, to a terrorist conventional weapons have proven time and time again to be more effective for their purpose.
With the right technology WMD have a different tone which is what Saddam was building with missle delivery systems that had upgraded guidance systems. This could have amounted to State sponcered terror and blackmail. Saddam said that his mistake was not having nuclear capablities before invading Kuwait. This was a 12+ year war and not a three week one. If WMD are found will you feel that you have been wrong about my team? What would be the turning point where you would or could ever consider this conflict (regarding US/UK) right?
It seems to me that the world is at a turning point. Will Nation-states still doiminate the global arena or will a new world order emerge. Many people see no difference between Saddam's Iraq and Bush's America. In fact they see America as the threat to them. The tie to WMD is that it would be this new world order that decides military might and nations would answer to this body exclusively. That just scares the hell into me. How many already see the UN as the world's government?
Jay
remember the fears everyone had when aids first hit the news?.
here was a new killer virus that didn't have a cure and people feared it could be passed on cups, on seats, by shaking hands, by coughing and sneezing and so on.. it turns out that it couldn't and while there is still no cure, the infection rate is actually relatively low.
it takes 2 years for an aids victim to infect someone else.. now we have sars, everything changes.
Well if you are right I'm going to be pissed that I paid my taxes! I have a friend who just went to china for vacation. HOW DUMB IS THAT! Pandemics have killed masses before and often seem to follow with the heels of war. spoooooky
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
Simon I took what Francois said as more so that the Iraqi regime did not comply with full disarmament. Granted over this whole saga UN inspectors distroyed massive amounts of WMD without tanks. But Saddam was a fox. And I believe he had help from other countries. The second part was antagonistic and I don't think that's what you meant at all. Past that Simon I have to stop talking. I like you. I think that you are a good man who is very very angry about all of this. It seems you take it very personally like you feel violated. I am sorry for that. I am sorry if you think me arogant to say this. I am sorry for my country that you and so many feel like you have been rubbed so raw. It all seems like it happened so fast. But it didn't only the media sensationalism of it did. The media is flaming the bias of the world. And it is my sincere hope that the Iraqi people get freedom out of all of this. You know they have always been a people under oppression. Get that book guy. It may be to late as history has now been made but had you read it the media would have had much less effect with their propaganda. Thats my take.
now, the war is over, the weapons were not used and of course have not been found.. how threatening could they be if they did not even use them when being invaded by a massive force (of the countries they hate)?!
perhaps, as many suspect, they didn't use them because they didn't have them?.
now we're being told that we'll have to be patient and give them time to find them.
Simon even Blix said it is early in the game. I have also heard snips that chemical weapons were done away with just prior to the war via captured Iraqi most wanteds. (But would/will there not be evidence of this? We will see.)
Personaly I think some better questions could be does Blix have the right to force his possie on the scene? Many say he could help. But for now the US says no thanks. If they don't find anything then its their butts. But if they do will the world just dismiss it?
Which is more important about this C.W.P. that Saddam is gone (which everyone is glad..Yes) Or that Bush's crediblity with much of the world hinges upon finding WMD in Iraq?
I'm just glad Saddam's murderous regime is dead. If Bush gets his WMD validation good for my team; if not and he looses in 2004 then I am still glad that this was done. May it help to end the suffering in Iraq. If relations with the world and the US is damaged beyond repair forever but, 5,000 children in Iraq don't have to die every month anymore I can live with that.
You know....The Middle East is such a hole
min's question:.
am i honest?
i don't know, i think i just really suck at lying.. .
It would be wrong to expect anyone to believe them.
But to the compulsive personality it is not a lie if they believe it. I have family that has this disorder. Its amazing they just make it up as they go along and fiction becomes reality. (This is not a JW story BTW)
They think that they are honest because they believe in their lie.
(With your assistance Brum) Maybe my question asks "Is it wrong to tell someone that they are not being honest?"
u.n. santions on iraq are still in place.
the threat of saddam is over.
even france sees the light and jean marc de la sabliere has proposed that the santions be lifted on tuesday.
It is such a good point that you make Simon
While it's easy to have the UN appear almost as some other country, the reality is that it is just the combination of those who vote.
I am glad that you say this. The UN represents governments not people.
I am not going to go into the options of recontainment cause its of no consequence now. I think that the Security council had no interest in lifting sanctions as a body. Its unfair to single out the US UK when all were prospering from the oil for food program. "There are no angles" even the UN itself got a billion to keep for itself while allowing Saddam to starve his own people.
It will be interesting what happens next. History is being made my friend.
from the back of the july 8, 2002 awake!
here is my rewritten version of the above letter to bethel, reflecting my own experiences in this area: .
"i lost my beloved daughter, rachel, in death to asthma on january 14, 1998. more than a month later, i had still not recovered from the shock, numbness, emptiness, and disbelief of one of the most terribly traumatic tragedies that has ever befallen me.
I'd buy ya a beer or a meal anytime guy.
Jay
min's question:.
am i honest?
i don't know, i think i just really suck at lying.. .
Min's question:
Am I honest?
I don't know, I think I just really suck at lying.
My question:
If someone is a compulsive liar is it wrong to not trust or believe them?
