I would just sum up all that most ultra conservative christianity (i.e. falwell) supports and put it in the "con" side.
Pro life-
against stem cell research
seperationist
only possible way for a person to be reformed is through OUR organization
kelsey007
JoinedPosts by kelsey007
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Does the Good outweigh the Bad?
by JH in.
does the good in the organization outweigh all the bad in the organization?
what would you add to the pros and cons on this list?.
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Do you believe in demons, Ted Jarasz?
by onthego inare you able to sleep at night?
knowing pat garza has gone public saying how you molested her and others when a district overseer in los angeles?
seeing that still another lawsuit was filed the first day of the 2003 new year against the watchtower society you are a governing body member of?
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kelsey007
I see! So even though you are convinced that mailing him directly would never reach him- you equally believe that he has associations or contacts with the likes of us that post here? I am a bit confused on that one. Yes I am sure that Ted's best JW buddy is lurking here just waiting to print out your post and share with him over dinner.....
Or another thought: Is it possible that "onthego" is a bit of a coward- hiding behind an alias raving accusations against ones that he dare not confront face to face?
Edited by - kelsey007 on 2 January 2003 13:18:17
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Do you believe in demons, Ted Jarasz?
by onthego inare you able to sleep at night?
knowing pat garza has gone public saying how you molested her and others when a district overseer in los angeles?
seeing that still another lawsuit was filed the first day of the 2003 new year against the watchtower society you are a governing body member of?
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kelsey007
Yes I am sure that Ted will be reading your post and respond- Have you ever thought of directing your attacks directly at him instead of here where it is certain he will never hear your thoughts? I believe that his address is common knowledge and you can write to him daily if you like- That way maybe you will feel better about yourself- Being the good guy you feel you are maybe - just maybe....
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Is the USA a bully?
by Robdar ini was watching the news last night.
the latest word from the war front is that we should be able to peaceably work out our differences with north korea.
as humiliating as it will be for us to kiss north korea's ass, we will do so because they do have the ability to nuke our west coast.
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kelsey007
Very intersting post Robyn- Just last night I was reading some history on the Reagan- Bush era. I pondered what I was reading for a moment and thought-"How like bullies we are!" It brought to mind the bullies in grade school that every Jw wimpish boy had to tolerate.
Then I had recalled how the republicans kept bashing Clinton over his sexual activities. They pounded on the immoral leader that was setting a BAD example for the youth in this country. Then I remembered all the statements made by Bush- The "evil ones". "After all this is the guy that tried to kill my dad." "Major league asshole". And one this week where he pounced a reporter on the Iraqui war issue shouting that "I am the one that can make that decision" Like a loudmouthed bully who has been given a position of power that he is not capable of properly handling. So, I guess we want our children- in the US- to have sexual morals but grow up to be bullies and attack all that we do not like- George Sr. was shown on a recent TV news show. He looked as if he had tears in his eyes as he stated: "I hate that man!" (Sadam)- But the ever so sheepish American- as another one of our great US leaders said earlier last century- "are so easily fooled."
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Are elders more spiritual
by JH in.
are elders more spiritual or just better qualified to teach?
does the watchtower choose their leaders for their spirituality or their leadership?
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kelsey007
The are more orgamizational... Bottom line. They stick to WT teaching and policy and do not question the org. And they know how to use the bible and WT books to effectively lead others.
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A question?
by kelsey007 inbill bowen states that in the year 2000 he "stumbled" across records about an elder accused of being a pediphile.
that when he "discovered" this information he approached the elders who handled the situation as well as the society.
he said that his stand lead him to have to decide whether or not to face expulsion from the wt by reporting the matter to the police.
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kelsey007
Bill Bowen states that in the year 2000 he "stumbled" across records about an elder accused of being a pediphile. That when he "discovered" this information he approached the elders who handled the situation as well as the Society. He said that his stand lead him to have to decide whether or not to face expulsion from the WT by reporting the matter to the police. My question is: Did he report the matter to the police? If he did what was the outcome? What action did the police take? I remember when Bowen posted photos of his trip to the KH he identified the "alledged" pediphile in a couple of the photos and described him as someone who was warmly accepted in the congregation.
As this seems to be the case that proved to be the catalyst for Silent Lambs I am curious as to the outcome, epsecially as to how the authorities reacted and dealt with the matter.
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Last Post - My Most Painful Public Confession
by Amazing inmy most painful confession
note to simon: i will use some expletives, but i hope that they will be retained as this is intended to be an otherwise civil and thoughtful post to all my fellow ex-jws.
please read on, as this is most painful.
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kelsey007
Amazing- thank you for one of hte most "AMAZING" and balanced post I have ever read on any ex-jw site. There is no doubt that you will do well- you already have. Though I do not know you I certainly wish you well in your surgery. Your leaving here- even if just for a while- I am sure will create a void for those honestly seeking recovery and balance.
Best wishes!
Kelsey
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ATTENTION APOSTATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by GING inu apostates.... fallen ones..... spiritually weak ones.....whatever u want to call u r selfs make me sick... all u display is hate.
quit u r pathetic crusade to destroy the wts.
u r childish " if i cant have it... no one can" attitude.. apostate 1) " once at a meeting a talk was given and the elder said we should pray for the spiritually weak ones in the cong!!!!!!..
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kelsey007
LOL @ ging (steven) You must have been lurking here for a few minutes- You figured out well which buttons to push to get an apostate riled up....
Whether you are serious or only playing a game there are some very negative people here and some not at all negative people here. There are some that thrive on bashing the WT as the evil empire and then there are some that are just glad to be out.
If you are an active JW- I welcome you with open arms and congragulate you on your courage for being here. If you are only here to play a game and entertain yourself I equally congragulate you on finding the buttons to push that stir emotion so well here.
Welcome!
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Benny Hinn on Dateline
by kelsey007 inwhat a show- millions of followers supporting this guy to the tune of $100,000,000 per year!
this guy really demonstrates how desperate people are.
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kelsey007
What a show- Millions of followers supporting this guy to the tune of $100,000,000 per year! This guy really demonstrates how desperate people are.
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Most effective means of forcing WT change..
by kelsey007 inafter many months of following the silent lambs movement and other such organizations designed to "expose" and force change in wt policies i find a common thread among the activist.
though the motivations and goals of such like minded activist may be pure and well intended the efforts are hindered due to a tendacy to throw useless, unprovable and unwarrented material into the pot along with what could prove to be great case making material.
a person- a judge even- who reviewed all accusations against the wt as lodged by ex-jw's would find the blows against the wt softened and diminished when examining the allegations one by one.
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kelsey007
After many months of following the Silent Lambs movement and other such organizations designed to "expose" and force change in WT policies I find a common thread among the activist. Though the motivations and goals of such like minded activist may be pure and well intended the efforts are hindered due to a tendacy to throw useless, unprovable and unwarrented material into the pot along with what could prove to be great case making material. A person- a judge even- who reviewed all accusations against the WT as lodged by ex-jw's would find the blows against the WT softened and diminished when examining the allegations one by one. This is not to say that there are not many, many heart wrenching stories about how families have been torn apart and not unlike many religious orders pediphiles do exists within the ranks of the WT. For example- a review of publicized child abuse cases in the WT in the US brings only one case to the fore where state law looks to have been violated or ignored by elders in a pediphile case.
As horrendous as child abuse is many hundreds of thousands more are adersely effected by the WT shunning policies. Though from a purely legal standpoint the issue may seem mute in a court of law. But much can be learned from the case in which the WT joined in with Swaggart Ministries involving tax issue and the sales of liturature. Though no law exist that would prevent any religion in the US from selling thier books or promoting thier doctrine- economics dramatically changed WT policy.
IMHO all the stuffed lambs in the world will not effect change in WT policy. In most cases I have reviewed the WT has done well in covering their a**ses in case of such litigation. As far as negative media attention toward the WT- they thrive on such. It only reinforces thier beliefs.
In the US, and possibly in other countries as well, attacking the WT's tax free charitable status is the best bet. Shunning, withholding life saving medical treatment from minors and other such practices may well, if lobbied properly, entice government officials to remove thier tax- exempt status. I am researching now to find cases where tax free organizations may have lost their staus due to practices that bring emotional harm- encourage family members to disown each other- or encourage practices that could bring an untimely death to minors.
After watching an interview with Christopher Reeves last night my mind reverted back to these thoughts. Mr Reeves is pushing for stem cell research. Though the majority of Americans have no problem with such research the very vocal ultra conservatice right christians of this nation have swayed the current administration to avoid this issue. Mr Reeve stated over and over that they are fighting their battle against the research on a moralistc platform- but economics will win out on is side. Morals are most usaully set aside in favor of profit. This is how change can realistically be forced in WT land. The Swaggart Ministries case is one of a very few cases lost by the WT. With over a century of court battles under thier belt- it was only the one dealing with economics that forced a dramatic change in the way the WT does business. Having grown up a JW it was dramatic to see the lit go on donation only placement. Not asking for a quarter for the mags was a big adjustment for the rank and file of the era.
IMHO the WT will not be beaten up to badly in the child abuse cases. Compared to the Catholic church the WT has far to few bona fide cases that could be winable by those that decide to bring suit.
Finding ways to threaten the WT's tax free status is a proven method to force change in the org. For those who really wish to see change- this is the vehicle. For those who are only out to vent and sling mud- the other vehicle is already in motion for them also.