First one was 'Support4XJW's', about '96 I guess. Looked at H20 at some point but it looked like a load of \/\/ /\ |\| |< and failed to sustain my interest. I still know a few people in the XJW online community from those days. That board started to fade after Tishe, the brilliant lady (and best mod I've seen) stopped running it, although it still carries on to this day. Then I found this place which for all its faults ( a slight tendancy to crush butterflies on wheels) has sustained my interest thus far with occasional forays elsewhere and periods when it's too boring to be hacked with.
Abaddon
JoinedPosts by Abaddon
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36
Do you remember the first anti-JW site you visited on the internet?...
by Hecklerboy ini remember doing a search on jw's and ending up on www.watchtowerinformationservice.org.
which led me to www.freeminds.org.
and then it led me here..
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Abaddon
One reason why the focus is on modes of transport and energy use is that one can still get to work/school/the shops in an alternately-powered car, or use public transport and vastly reduce the environmental impact. When one throws a switch the electricity can come from any power source, the lights will still come on.
Replacing cows as a food source is, well, a cow of a different colour. You cannot have alternate forms of power for cows (the rocket-powered cow being an exception :-P ).
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Mormons != JW. Read these genuine quotes from active and inactive members!!
by Qcmbr inwith interest i find that once again the lds faith is cast as the twin tower of mordor to the watchtower orthanc.
we are not the same my precious.
read these quotes below to see just how different we really are.
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Abaddon
Qcmbr
though you think yourself clever in your line by line disagreement and attack you aren't. You are just an argumentative person.
Ah; classic cult reaction.
If there was untruth in my reply then he could show this quite easily. As what I say is true, all he can do is attack me personally.
And before you go off on one, yes. I do make barbed comments about you; but I can normally substansiate them (apart from you having been a JW at a certain point where I seem to be mistaken... but the fact you, a cultist, stalk a discussion board for another cult is profoundly weird enough to be getting on with I think).
Your personal attacks are besides the point; you accuse me of being argumentative; if someone posts rubbish is it argumentative to disagree with the rubbish? Yes, but it doesn't matter as there is NOTHING wrong with arguing against rubbish. Except to the person responsible for the rubbish, which explains the whining noise coming from you.
If I had said that the LDS believe White but the JWs believe Black ALL you would have said in response is: They are both coloursTherefore they are not different.
And when ad hom pales one can always launch a straw man attack. Not only can you not base your reply on the points I made (as you cannot do so without looking foolish), you have to make stuff up about what I might say about other things to make it look like you're being reasonable (instead of the cultic conversational coward you prove yourself to be).
I'm sorry but I find you cannot debate well!
And this comes from a cult victim who's already used two logical fallacies in his reply. What you find is obviously influenced by your critical thinking ability, which is +/- 0 as evidenced from being a member of a church based on a farmer with a fantastic imagination. Consider my face not bothered as regards your opinion of my debating ability.
I have a two year old who uses a similar logic structure to you and it revolves around choosing the opposite position purely for the sake of it.
And here we see a 'nice' combination; another ad hom combined with a red herring. That's FOUR logical fallacies in a fairly short reply... maybe you do have a talent afterall..
This isn't about my methods of argumr5ntation Qcmbr.
This is about the fact your argument (about the amount of difference between JW's and Mormons) is utter codswhallop.
Whilst they might believe seemingly different things they are no further apart than two sub-species that can still interbreed as they both are identifiable as cults. It's the duck paradigm all over again; if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and moves like a duck, it is a duck. Even if it thinks it is a golden eagle and that the other duck is a mouse, both it and the other duck are still ducks.
Of course, due to your indoctrination you have no respect of education or science if it conflicts with your 19th Century farmer's fantasies and thus have to resort to pathetic whining and evasion rather than proving me wrong. You are a coward. Defend your silly beliefs or stop trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Abaddon - you could write polemic for the WT mags - your good at it.
AH, didums. still with the ad homs I see. Sore point for you?
You seem unable to actually agree with ANYTHING.
Nah; there's plenty of people on this board who also think you are a nice but rather tragic cult victim. That's not an ad populi, that's a fact.
What you mean is I don't agree with (virtually anything) YOU believe in in the sphere of religion or spirituality or those areas of life where your opinions are religiously predicated rather than being based on fact or reality.
This is because (although admitedly a bit of an arrogant bastard) I actually base my opinions on things that have evidence or facts, and you base your beliefs on religious nonsense
I bet if I cut and pasted a comment from one of your posts ages ago I'd find a rebuttal here.
Again, a straw man, too busy making up what might happen under x circumstance to bother defending the pathetic pile of rubbish I believe you would wish to be regarded as 'your point'. Why not actually defend your beliefs?
Show us how different your 'truth' is from the cult known as JW's. Thus far you've failed to. And (the funny bit) is that YOU started this thread... what were you thinking?
Or will you further distinguish yourself by running away from a discussion you started but cannot possibly end without appearing silly?
PS
Too late....
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Does God exist ?
by moomanchu ina man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard .
trimmed.
as the barber began to work, they began to have a good .
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Abaddon
In other words, if bad things happen, it's your fault.
Nice to know, thanks for the insight...
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Mormons != JW. Read these genuine quotes from active and inactive members!!
by Qcmbr inwith interest i find that once again the lds faith is cast as the twin tower of mordor to the watchtower orthanc.
we are not the same my precious.
read these quotes below to see just how different we really are.
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Abaddon
Qcmbr
Source of authority claimed - (Heavenly vision V. One man with another bible interpretation)
JW's have claimed inspiration, so no difference there.
Understanding of purpose of life - (Become like God V. Live on perfected earth forever)
That's minutae; the difference between one fairy story and another. For example;
- Disinherited girl kept as skivvy, bad step mother and sisters, a good fairy, magic, Prince, happily ever after
- Girl fleeing death hiding in woods, good dwarves, bad Queen, magic, Price, happily ever after
The above pair are functionaly identical; threat, escape, isolation from natural place in order of things, dispair, a mystic messenger, magic, a hero and happy resolution.
Shunning - (LDs actively reach out to those who leave V. Matter of faith not to visit.)
WRONG and you know it. I am sure that both JW and Mormon Elders feel they reach out to disfellowshipped ones as they 'should'. And both are only really interesed in those disfellowshipped who accept their fault and return meekly. Are all the x-Mormons liars?
Relationship To Other Faiths - (LDS have no preaching work against other faiths V. JWs regularly producing media detracting from others faith.)
Oh come now; don't try to hide the true feelings of LDS about other religions. According to the official story of the LDS Church, in 1820 Smith was visited by God the Father and God the Son, after praying about which church he should join. He was told by Jesus, he should join none of them for they were "all wrong" and all the Christian church's doctrines "were an abomination" (Joseph Smith - History 19, Pearl of Great Price). Mormons consider other faiths to be as wrong as JW's consider other faiths to be wrong; all it is is thatMornons are better at PR; so no functional difference in beliefs there
Path to God - (Faith in Jesus V. Faith in WT)
How can the path to god be faith in Jesus in an organisation where a human heirachy can rule someone is no longer on path to god? Both organisations have faith in BOOKS and an oligarchal power struture; individuals in both faith my THINK it's all about Jee-SUS!, but that's just conditioning.
Afterlife - (All get to continue progressing V. All dead until resurrection)
Minutae; both offer a fantsy "kiss-it-better" solution to human mortality; the doctrines are functionaly identical in what they represent to believers.
Secular Education - (Encouraged V. Discouraged)
They encourage it and then ignore it; look at this rubbish;
http://www.zaksite.co.uk/whyprophets/prophets/new/deluge.htm
The final closing of the bridge between Asia and America would come at the end of the process of separating the landmasses (which might have taken 100 years or 100 million years - it is all the same to God)
... I can also cite works by a 9/11 Conspiracy nut and Professor of Bring'em Young University who also believes in the FanstasyFlood.
How can an organsiation whose beliefs run contrary to scientific fact, but whose ideology is so totalitarian that this is ignored even by educated followers be said to 'encourage it'? The LDS no more encourage education than someone who teaches somone to read and then blinds them encourages reading.
Family - (Eternal Unit V. Divided - esp. if one anointed)
Show me the fuctional difference of this belief please. I don't think you can.
Scripture - (Inspired but corrupted V Inspired and Deified)
WRONG and you know it, the Morons just base their faith to a large part on a 19th Century fabrication that claims inspiration.
Revelation - (Ongoing V Stopped)
I suggest you turn the new light on so you can see better; yup, the Mormons revise their faith and so do the JW's; the justifications they give may be different but it is functionally identical.
Spirit - (Person V Power)
And what functional difference is there in this belief? About the same as the two sub-species of zebra I mentioned having slightly different stripes I think.
Kingdom - (All Areas Of life V Preaching Only)
If I gave more of a damn I'd cite WT articles saying how all a Dubbie's life should bear Witness. As we all know there are such artciles I'll refrain from citation and assume we can agree both encourage a 'whole-of-life' approach to the practise of their faith.
Responsibility - (Get Own Witness V. Accept WT Witness)
Pfff! Come off it. Neither religion cultivates personal responsibility. You might think they do, but hell, yes? and? so? what?
Celebrations - (Accepted V Banned)
LOL. JW's have celebrations too, just not Christmas or birthdays. So, no difference.
Preaching - (2 years mission + lifetime example V Lifetime knocking)
Minutae; 2 years FULL TIME equals 17 years at 10 hours a month; they both perform the same functionality, i.e. prostylsing.
There are plenty of similarities
Yes, I know. And as doctrine is unprovable, you cannot demonstrate any functional difference between the two religions. Both are a niche belief who believe in modern-day inspiration, who prostlyse, who encourage donations to support the religion, who ignore modern science, who revise beliefs at whim on pretexts, and who shun those who speak out of line or defy beliefs.
There are more similarities between Dubbism and Mormonism than you care to admit.
SusanHere
And, c'mon people! Isn't his "differences" list pretty clear in showing that there are actually many key differences in major doctrinal points between LDS and JW?
To someone with knowledge they can differentiate the two. But to external observers they are identical in the nature if not the form of their beliefs and the functional effects (shunning knowledge that conflicts with doctrine, shunning people, etc.) are pretty much identical. I am sure the two sub-speices of zebra are very clear on their differences. To most people they're zebras.
But do you seriously think cultists will admit to being cultists? Moonie, Mormon or Dubbie, they'll all deny it. Of course you and Qcmbr will!
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Mormons != JW. Read these genuine quotes from active and inactive members!!
by Qcmbr inwith interest i find that once again the lds faith is cast as the twin tower of mordor to the watchtower orthanc.
we are not the same my precious.
read these quotes below to see just how different we really are.
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Abaddon
Wow... for a minute there I was going to congratulate Qcmbr for throwing off the shackles of another stupid religion AND developing critical thining skills AND a sense of irony, all apparently overnight
Seems I am to be disappointed. Actually I am utterly flabberghasted that you can post that stuff and then not see the similarity, but there you go. I always thought leaping from the frying pan into the frying pan made you window-lickingly special... nice bloke, yes... but special... unfortunately "once bitten twice shy" seems to be edged out by "some of the people all of the time" for Qc.
Yes Qcmbr, Equus zebra and E. hartmannae are different. As are Giraffa camelopardalis thornicrofti and G.c. tippelskirchi. No one would ever mistake one for the other
As you are comparing them, what would you say differentiates two groups that;
- Claim they are Christian
- Practice shunning
- Have a belief in "truth revealed" to someone in 19th C USA
- Place faith in psedu-cannonical literature that is claimed to be inspired without any proof of the same (not that cannonical literature can prove anything, but you get my point I hope)
- Place restrictions upon adherents not found in the Bible
- Place expectations on adherents not found in the Bible
- Believe in spirit guidance of modern day leaders
- Have had and still have doctrines that are offensive and damaging and/or utterly ludicrous (LDS = blacks are 2nd class humans, you have loads of wives, you get your own planet, JW = vacinations and organ transplants are bad for you, blood still is, Lions will lie down with lambs in Paradise and not eat them...)
... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ? ... ?
Please, minutae aside, what's the difference?
James: "codswallop" means a load of rubbish, bullshit, gobledygook, or Republican political policy
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Who thinks Killing or Dying for your country is a good Idea?
by new boy inwell since maybe you are no longer a jw any more..............you have that option!.
good idea?.
giving your sons or daughters to the "gods of war" .
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Abaddon
Neccesary and good idea are two different things.
The question reminds me of the Bill Hicks routine about whether gay's should be in the millitary. According to him anyone stupid enough to be in the millitary should be in the millitary, gay or otherwise.
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Creationism creeps into UK Schools
by Clam increationism creeps into uk schools.
newscientist.com news service 2nd december 2006 .
in the beginning there was the discovery institute in seattle, washington, the religious think tank that has backed the us "intelligent design" movement.
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Abaddon
Joules
I say have the schools offer both classes or none at all. This way, a student can pick one class between the two based on their own personal/religious beliefs and not be forced to take only one that could seriously offend them or their parents.
Well, if that's then plan we need to have flat-earth options in geography and seperate classes for those who want to learn about astrology or the Earth being the centre of the Universe in science.
The minute we accept the shallow religious-predicated supersticous nonsense dressed-up as a pseudo science into the classroom we become negligent in our responsibility of care to the children.
Obviously some people will disagree with this, typically those who don't think Creationism and ID are "shallow religious-predicated supersticous nonsense dressed-up as a pseudo science". But then such people would think that, wouldn't they? It's like Nazi apologists thinking the fact Hoilocaust demial is not taught as an alternative belief to the real history of WWII is unfair.
The hurt feelings of misinformed people, no matter how sincere they might be, cannot be used to compromise educational standards.
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Creationism creeps into UK Schools
by Clam increationism creeps into uk schools.
newscientist.com news service 2nd december 2006 .
in the beginning there was the discovery institute in seattle, washington, the religious think tank that has backed the us "intelligent design" movement.
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Abaddon
Ah, the antics of the KrazyKristianKritters... but given the pretty universal lack of interest in religion in the UK (especially when compared to the USA) Creationism per se doesn't stand a chance. The silver ring thing came to the UK and was generally the subject of ridicule.
ID, due to it's massive intellectual dishonesty, is more of a threat... it's sort of "NEW Creationism, now with LESS god!", and to those without a good background in the sciences (or experience in critical thinking) can be very decptive.
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Was this really a smart choice of words?
by sammielee24 ini was watching pres bush in a speech telling the world that he is 'compelled' and 'driven by a higher power'.
that god wants him to give people around the world freedom.
that 'this crusade', the usa is on.............well...that was part of it and i sat there thinking.
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Abaddon
Hehe... Bush is the only President who has dropped bombs that are smarter than he is...