Who thinks Killing or Dying for your country is a good Idea?

by new boy 79 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  new boy

  Well since maybe you are no longer a JW any more..............You have that option!

  Good Idea?

  Giving your sons or daughters to the "Gods of War"

  Afer all.......... we are a War like nation........We like it.......... thats why.......the U.S spends 53% of its budget on "defense"...and we do like our "Freedom"..................freedom of cheap gas that is.

  I went to my 20th class reunion 20 years ago and saw a friend who went to Vietnam ( we were both raised JWs) He said to me "I went to Vietnam and I have no regrets!".............I said "I didn't go............ and I have No regrets"

  P.S.........Of the 63 Guys who went over there, in my class (class of 67)...............no one died over there..........4 guys came back killed themselfs!

  May Peace be with you!
• 

  Gregor

  war = bad peace = goooood!

  "why can't we all just get along?"....noted social scholar Rodney King.

  "Peace in our time!"... Neville Chamberlin (shortly before Hitler invaded Poland)

  To answer the topic question - In my opinion, it's not an "idea" to kill or die for ones country. This implies someone is author or inventor of war. The fact is that humans instinctively defend themselves, their families, their territory, their way of life, in other words, their country in response to aggresion by those humans who want to control and 'own' them. If you talk to the loved ones of those who have died in wars most will say they are proud of that person and they understand the context that death. When wars of political maneuvering that have no clear purpose in self defense (Vietnam) we start to see protests by those who naively conclude that ALL war is unecessary. These people are well suited to become someones slave.
• 

  Woodsman

  I think we are afforded the luxury to ask questions like this because of the sacrifice previous generations made. We are also seperated from violence by a great distance and protected from harm due to our military might.

  Please imagine you are living in an ancient city-state and a large horde of invaders were riding hard thru your gates. By the time you typed your post someone would have lopped off your head. Raped your wife and then murdered her and your kids.

  Now if that is acceptable to you, and you still feel you would be a pacifist then I respect you as a man who would stick to his principles,though I don't share your principles.

  If however you would fight in that situation to protect yourself and your family and neighbors, would you fight if you had a chance to meet the invaders a mile out?

  How about 5 miles out? 50? 1,000? Would you go 5,000 miles to protect your neighbors? Or do you not consider people that far to be your neighbors.

  My point is the only difference between fighting an army marching down your street and fighting one overseas is distance and what affect should distance have on the answer to your question.

  I'm leaving out the issue of whether or not you agree politically with the conflict and am assuming we are talking about all conflicts including ones where you and your family will probably die or worse if you do not fight and win. I make this assumption to mete out the real issue of to fight or not.

  I took a peaceful approach as a JW but now have returned to my previous position of I will fight to protect my family and neighbors no matter where they be. If I cannot personally fight I will support those who do. It was in fact an easy thing to do. I knew I would fight here at home and could not allow someone to harm my family and friends. From there it was easy to reason that distance should not affect that position.

  I cannot regulate the wars my country fights except thru the democratic process. I am one man. If there is a God then it is his responsibility to manage those affairs if they displease him. I do believe the Bible states that the governments are serving as his ministers until he decides to take action so who am I to argue with the ministers of God.
• 

  anewme

  I have gone through so many changes of thinking on this subject since leaving the JWs.
  The degree of ardor and appreciation for ones country and countrymen and degree of self sacrificing
  spirit vary from one person to another.
  
  My view of war has changed. Sometimes an enemy must be stopped by killing him/her if necessary.
  But diplomacy and reason and compromise should always be pursued first.
  
  I no longer throw a blanket parroted objection to all war.
  I am no longer sure that Jesus is going to come again as a king and do away with all war forever.
  I think innocent ones need defending. Im tired of wondering where God is when they need it.
  
  These new thoughts surprise me, me who used to view all war as monstrous.
  
  Have you ever had an enemy? Dont you want them out of your life? What if they were out to destroy your life or the life of your loved ones or destroy your town?
  
  Would you stand by and allow someone to kill your child? Your mother? Your spouse? Would you stand on principle then?
  
  The JWs taught us that all the "wordly" people who participated in the wars and government were morons and goons of Satan himself. I know longer respect that disrespectful view of those who actually are doing something to protect our freedoms.
  It has been thoroughly discussed on this forum how the JWs do NOTHING TO HELP THIS WORLD OF MANKIND!
  They criticize and make fun of and openly campaign against the efforts of many many people who are helping others.
  
  
  What are your thoughts?
  
  
  
  
• 

  Amazing

  I all depends,

  Afer all.......... we are a War like nation........We like it.......... thats why.......the U.S spends 53% of its budget on "defense"...and we do like our "Freedom"..................freedom of cheap gas that is.

  Its unfair to say that the USA is a war-like nation. The largest budget expense is Social Security ... defense is not the largest. Gas would be cheaper by not going to war, i.e. Iraq.

  So, again, it all depends ... and the situation is usually always more complex then we like to think. This is why we bought into the Watchtower swill in the first place ... because they painted a simplistic picture of black vs white, all are bad but the JWs.

  Jim Whitney
• 

  skyking

  For what it is worth, Yes, I am willing to die for my country but not for Bush's war. I was and I am still against it. Now in the near future this might change if it turns into a war of assimulation like 20% of the radical Muslins would like it to become. That is a war against all of mankind that is not Muslin. You are damn right I would fight in that war if it was too come to US Shores.
• 

  crazyblondeb

  While I don't agree with everything Bush has done, they started it on 9/11. Now, we have suicide bombers everywhere, plots everywhere, in almost every country!!

  I'd rather it be fought there, and now, than here and later. This is our generation's war, not my daughter's or granddaughter's war.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  good comments.

  but no, i would never lay down my life for babylon, or kill for babylon.

  i do not consider myself canadian, even though i am registered with the canadian government as a canadian. i consider myself a world citizen. i have never once, in my entire life, been in a fight, although i have been presented with the opportunity many times. if i can do it, THEN EVERY HOMO SAPIEN OUT THERE CAN DO IT. don't tell me it's impossible, because i know it's not. and world citizens, simply speaking, do not kill others, or harm them, or steal from them, or rape them, or project their own violent psychosises on them.

  if someone came to kill me, i would rather die than kill them, and i have no hope for an afterlife. i just believe that i always have been, and always will be, regardless of the start and end of human consciousness. if they need to kill me, then i hope they get what they need from it. but if it does happen, then the last moments of my life are not going to be spent fighting death. if they came to harm or kill a loved one, i still would not kill them, but they would have to kill me before they could harm a loved one.

  resistance is one thing, killing is another. self preservation is one thing, violence is another.

  if anyone thinks this view to be short-sighted, idealistic or naive, then perhaps you should stop looking at me and laughing, and start thinking what it is about YOU that prevents you from thinking the same.

  i did lsd, and i experienced ego death. after that, regular death is not such a big deal. not afraid of it, but i don't rush towards it either.

  one love,

  tetra
• 

  skyking

  Iraq had nothing to do with 911. Afghanistan is a horse of a different color.
• 

  lovelylil

  I am not for war and I don't feel anyone really is. But war is a part of human life right now. And yeah it stinks and innocent people often get hurt or even killed. But what do you think would happen if we all said today "lets send home all the boys and girls of the U.S. military and we won't send any of them to war anymore?" While we are at it - lets just rid ourselves of the U.S. military altogether so we are no longer supporting killing or death in our country?

  You tell me - what will happen to us then? Do you think the rest of the world will join us in our new "make love not war" policy? Lilly