Getting a DNA sample is easy; transubstansiation; bread and wine -> flesh and blood.
Abaddon
JoinedPosts by Abaddon
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58
Jesus' Tomb... Has it been found?
by Elsewhere init's a long shot to prove such a thing... i'm curious how this will pan out.. .
http://time-blog.com/middle_east/2007/02/jesus_tales_from_the_crypt.html.
february 23, 2007 6:55 jesus: tales from the cryptbrace yourself.
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A Big Miracle - God is Love
by David ben Jesse ina big miracle
i composed an instrumental song "god is love" and sent it as an mp3-file via email to a christian music publisher.
every time the song was cut in half, the rest was missing.
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Abaddon
Now I analyzed the Bible some years ago... I think I'm the only one who has a proper understanding about the Book of Revelation.
How modest.
As with much religious extremism, it appears you have deified yourself.
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28
Allah... he can dish it out but can't take it.
by Elsewhere inlooks like the all-powerful creator of everything has to hide behind humans when confronted with opposing ideas.
sure, allah can rant on and on about how he wants to kill and torment the unbelievers, but what happens when someone simply questions allah?
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=internetnews&storyid=2007-02-22t130227z_01_l22432925_rtrukoc_0_us-egypt-blogger.xml&src=rss&rpc=22.
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Abaddon
Considering the fact that we're dealing with people whose grandparents were illiterate goatherds (or similar), it is hardly surprising they act exactly like OUR great-grandparents did when THEIR grandparents were illiterate goatherds.
Blasphemy used to be an enforcable law in the West. People went to jail for it; and worse. We used to not have any real appreciation of human freedom.
So why a more primative culture than ours should suffer the same issues (misogyny, religious intolerance, barbaric judicial system, etc.) is not surprising. What is surprising is the continued insistence of some that it is due to the brand of religion rather than the unadvanced nature of the culture.
Just cause they have cars and mobile phones does not mean they are as culturally advanced as us. A mobile phone does not bring with it an acceptence of the equality of women and tolerance towards opposing religious philosphies. Cultural change is slower, and can be made worse by people who oughta know better (as they're so advanced in comparison) acting unwisely.
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86
Talk on Apostates
by IslandBrother inhave you ever walked on the beach and tried following another persons footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible?
by calling ourselves christians, we have indicated our desire to do just that, to follow closely in the footsteps of christ.
have you ever noticed though that on a crowded beach, , there were several sets of footprints, many of them may look alike.
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Abaddon
Have you ever walked on the beach and tried following another person's footprints; matching your own steps with them as exactly as possible? And then decided that it far better to make your own footprints whre you will, as long as you don't kick sand in anyone's face? As someone else's footprints are either too large or small, far apart or close together, going in the wrong direction or just too vauge to really follow without looking like you you are walking through a mine-field or trying to fly. And you only look like you if you walk where you want the way you want to walk.
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22
Revelling in not believing
by PaulJ inok i've been thinking about posting this for a while.
i'd really love to see what people think, there might even be people who think the same thing.. as jw's we got every single little thing rammed down our throats right?
so, we had set beliefs or answers for everything- does god exist?, are there aliens?
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Abaddon
Welcome to destruct testing reality.
All was not as what it seemed. If there was no baby, does it mean there is no bath-water? Were you wrong (like in a taste-test picking out an own-brand instead of Coke) or WRONG (thinking that Pure-Heart Carebear is the bestest bear instead of Rainbow Carebear)? Is it all as mundane as being glorified monkeys?
It was an exhillarating time for me.
I still don't know it all (despite having a reputation for seeming otherwise).
I firmly believe that if anything isn't provable to reasonable standards, it isn't worth basing my life around. The idea of a god playing tricks - not proving it exists to test your faith - is sick. In the unlikely event of god being like that, then it already knows what I think about it. Therefore I don't believe in god, at least not in any way comparable to what I used to believe. It's more metaphorical than metphysical for me.
I think anyone who thinks atheists have no moral base or ulterior motives for disbelief or are incapable of sharing wonder at the beatuty of the world needs to go to their room and think very hard. I think religionists and more general theists are perfectly entitled to believe what they will, but have no right to restrict what I or others do or believe on the basis of those beliefs unless somone is actually going to be harmed.
There's an awful lot of detail about the above I could go into, and lots that follows from the above, but I think you just want the highlights.
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31
Survey on science, astrology, aliens & article
by Madame Quixote inhttp://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/us-beliefs-in-pseudoscience-worry/20070217212109990001?ncid=nws00010000000001
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Abaddon
Sadly, me claiming to be an alien is no more provable than any other paranormal claim if one uses any reasonable set of definitions for 'evidence', 'fact' and 'theory'.
I actually would love alien shit to be true. I mean, I think it is true, as in likely there are 'aliens' out there. I just find the experiences people have 'being caused by aliens' a little unlikely.
Unless it is an alien equivalent of Frat boys going around playing baseball with peoples' mail boxes, I just can't see their motivation unless intelligent life is very unique, and even then their methods sloppy and questionble. Any FTL civilisation would make our Stealth look like an Amish person at Mardi Gras. A non-FTL civilisation is coming to stay. The plurality of claims doesn't leve one with a reasonable (for me) logical explanation. Why is it always the pig farmer in Albama with the out-of-focus Super 8 and not the lawn of the White House?
I think 'aliens are watching us we are special' is just the latest version of 'god is watching us we are special'.
Ha, now I have spread more dis-information amongst the cattle I can now enjoy a nice, fresh rat. Bwa-ha-ha!
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28
Were you a loud singer?
by HockeyMullet ini don't know why, but i was just thinking of this guy in my hall that sang so loud that it was embarassing to just be there.
he sounded like the love child of kermit the frog and miss piggy.
i remember trying to mimick his voice during one song and getting counseled by one of the bros because i had a few of younger guys laughing.
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Abaddon
I remember this snobery about whether a congo was loud or quiet.
The loud ones always felt is 'meant' something.
A few 'singers' stand out. The wife of David Muxlow, PO of Chelsea (London), Undertaker by trade (I shit you not); she used to have the sort of vibrato that if heard from an engine makes mechanics make that expensive 'pwhooo' sound. Flabby and wobbly, with gusto. It paid to sit away from her. William M'bgo on the other hand had a bass voice to die for (think of a continent humming). Mavis SImmons was like unto having ones eardrums flossed with barbed wire. Happy days.
Paddington and Marlylebone were loud; lots of Afro-Carribeans, singing like you meant it was expected. There were one or two songs that completely foxed everyone though; some malarky about Lazarus maybe? No one knew the melody. A few of the sisters sang like a V8 muscle car in a traffic jam... you could just hear they wanted to let it come out, but that was alas 'not done'.
Did make sing-songs at Congo get-togethers (before they became unto something bad) great fun though. Punting along the river in Oxford one day with the twins Ruby and Ruth (Rue-B! and Ru't) bawling out 'The Greatest Love of All', tipping our straw hats at the people on the bank. Jamming on guitar with Chris Ivy singing 'September' (he used to be in the disco band USA).
And you know what this little tread down memory lane slaps me around the face with? All those good fun things were disapproved of, really. Sick cult.
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84
OH, THE IRONY OF IT ALL.............Global Warming
by Warlock in"blizzard targets northeast".
"record snow falls for date in chicago".
"hearing on 'warming of planet' cancelled because of ice storms".
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Abaddon
Qcmbr
you may abuse me publically all you like
Hypocrite, she was taking your lead.
but like I said intimidation isn't what convinces me.
LOL. Nor facts.
If you can't see the coming wave of environmnetal taxation and constraint on people's freedom
Hypocrite. You dare to bleat on about constraints on freedom when in your 'ideal' world many freedoms would be constrained...
that will do nothing whatsoever to affect our C02 emissions (as already stated china and India wipe out any small reductions and continued economic growth in other developed countries will also add to the man made outputs) but will give the government another slice of our incomes.
And now China and India are coming on board, what is your excuse for sticking your head in the sand?
As for ice cores show me an exact temperature for ten years ago derived from an ice core and show me how that was 'the' temperature at the time - account for location, altitude, global temperature and convince me that there was such a thing as an average temperature and we know what it was.
LOL. Once again you show how little you know. And don't get all frothy at your (mealy) mouth. This is YOU showing YOU up by YOUR lack of knowledge. You proudly declaim how you are too indolent (my phrasing) to bother opening a book or doing research on a subject. And ask questions which show you know so little you make mistakes in the assumptions made within your QUESTIONS, as well as those factual erors in your answers.
Why do you do this Qc? You make yoursel an object of fun. It is YOU that do this.
What makes you so special that without any decent research on your part you can declare thousands of scientists wrong? Your arrogance is sickening.
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84
OH, THE IRONY OF IT ALL.............Global Warming
by Warlock in"blizzard targets northeast".
"record snow falls for date in chicago".
"hearing on 'warming of planet' cancelled because of ice storms".
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Abaddon
Fangorn; if you actually cited your sources or expanded your argument to specifics (like WHICH of the scientists are 'political flaks') you'd be worth responding to.
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OH, THE IRONY OF IT ALL.............Global Warming
by Warlock in"blizzard targets northeast".
"record snow falls for date in chicago".
"hearing on 'warming of planet' cancelled because of ice storms".
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Abaddon
Warlock
YOU CANNOT BACK TEST FARTHER BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE THE NUMBERS. ANYTHING BEYOND THE NUMBERS IS SPECULATION. PLAIN AND SIMPLE...........SPECULATION.
No it isn't. Now, why do you ignore being told how temperatures prior to the 19th C are determined? Rather than research it you call it speculation, and that really isn't fair. The ratio of various isotopes of oxygen varies according to air temperature.Ice contains air bubbles. Therefore old ice allows you to determine the air temperature at the time it froze. Those isotopic ratios (for a givien temperature) are the same today as they were then. It is so NOT speculation.
Your example re. ATT; you can only get their records as long as ATT existed, just like you can only get temperture recors from weather stations as long as they existed. But just as weather existed before weather stations, and can be measured using things other than thermometer reading at weather stations, so to did communication 'stocks' exist before ATT, and the value of the commodities available in the past can be neasured by things other than the share price of ATT.
The ice cores come mostly from Antarctica and Greenland, but are backed up by ice cores from mountain glaciers... in the space of a few decades many of these mountain glaciers have become unviable for taking ice cores from... as they are melting...
http://www.chem.hope.edu/~polik/warming/IceCore/IceCore2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core
How come you are assuming we are all so stupid that we believe made-up stories? And yourself so smart that STILL without investigating the facts you consider yourself capable of having an informed opinion?
It's like me holding forth about the stock market (about which I know next-to-nothing) and telling YOU you are wrong by saying things you know (being knowledgable about the stock market) simply are not true.
I think you'd find me doing that silly and unreasonable.
Qcmbr
We have concrete GROUND based temperatures from 1850 nothing further back - nothing just best guesses - this is very, very different to hard facts. We are having 'faith' that the scientists stories are correct before that point. One hard fact I know about is that if you head up north in the UK you'll see glacial features from a time when the temperature was extremelly cold - a mere 11000 odd years ago - there is something very powerful causing cycles in temperature and it isn't man.
And the accurate air temperature records we have from both hemispheres mean nothing? Are you saying that ground temperature and air temperature are unlinked? That the Earth has under-floor heating prehaps? Why do you say "there is something very powerful causing cycles in temperature and it isn't man" when no one is saying that man is the ONLY influence on temperature?
Rather than producing simplistic responses that either imply you believe stuff I don't think you can prove (air and ground temperatures are unlinked), or which ignore the claims being made (man is NOW altering temperature) to make fallacious implications?
2 - Deriving global temperatures from ice cores is a very inexact science since by its definition it relies upon guessing what the data means. The chicken little brigade ignore that data anyway which suggests that the interglacial perods (15-20 000 years according to our theories) happen fairly frequently and temperature fluctuations (not man made) move enough to freeze most of this planet's northen landmass and then warm to our current temperature. Following this pattern we should realise that our society is on a very short tenure since we are 'due' another period of freezing. Global warming if manmade and sustainable is going to save us! Try imagine feeding and housing 10 billion people when swathes of Europe and North America is frozen solid.
Please show how isotopic detemination of air temperature using ice cores is 'guessing what the data means'. You saying it doesn't mean it is true, and unles you have good evidence I'd rather believe experts. And again, misrepresentation. Please show me an example of interglacial cycles being ignored in the work of climate researchers working on current temperature trends.
3 - Up until the 1970's our data was telling us that global temperatures where falling - what short memories we have - after that time the temperatures rose and yet all our graphs magically start to prove a steady increase in warming. If all the supporters of man made global warming want to explian the mistake that enamoured the scientific community and caused them to cry that we were all due a freeze and then explain how they could all have been so wrong then please do so. In the meantime let's all start suggesting they are infallible again even though they have flipped there position. Getting sucked once into a cult that flips doctrines just isn't enough for some people! I may sound harsh here but I'm just illustrating that the same thing is happening here. Scientific community preaches one thing - flips doctrine and preaches another using the same data to prove both with some new light to justify the flip go figure. Me - I don't care how many people say that the earth is flat - I'll wait and see what happens when someone goes off and tries to sail off the edge.
If you had actually read up on the subject you'd know why what you refer to was thought by some and why temerature were a they were then. Of coure, you will now be indignant that when you show by your statements that you don't know something, rather thn being embaressed you are acting authoratative on a subject you've not researched adequately. Why the arrogance Qc?
4 - There is a great desire to believe we are highly effective at controlling our environment and on a micro level we are masters but when it comes to global effects we just don't figure and we like to think we do. If global warming has some swith that we as humans can flip by simply increasing gas levels by a tiny fraction then it's already too late and all this talk about stopping global warming is just repentant waffle, you can't put the horse back in the stable unless anyone can think of a way to convince us all to live without power and can find a way to remove the gas that somehow is causing the issue. How stupid are we. Clean up pollution by all means, reduce emissions by being more efficient fine but stop pretending that we can play with the global thermostat by paying twice as much for products and taxing car usage - its not going to happen.
Half right and half wrong. WE have already screwed things up and probably have upto fifty years of upward trends even with realsitic controls. The UK could close down tomorrow, and the growth of China would equal the emmissions saved by the UK closing in TWO YEARS. But acting like financial incentives can't help control car use et.al. is like pretending the rise in cigarette cost doen't help ontrol useage.
5 - Models of climate change are models not facts, they crunch the data and burn vast amounts of cpu time and yet the very nature of modelling chaos systems is that your results show one of an uncountable possible outcomes. Over a long enough time order does arrive from chaos (the 'little ice age' cycle is the counterpart to our warm cycle we are in now - sample your majoity data at the peak of a warm cycle by all means but stop extrapolating forward as though temperatures will keep rising.) There is nothing so stupid as the hockey stick graph of temperature that we see trotted out by global warming reports - we are all aware that every system has checks and balances that stop things running away into mathematical progressions (e.g. sure there is a flu season but that flu season is matched by a decline in flu) so it is with temperature, if it rises sharply that induces negative feedbacks at some point that reverese the trend and generate the cycle.
"sample your majoity data at the peak of a warm cycle by all means but stop extrapolating forward as though temperatures will keep rising" - This is such a blatent misrepresentation I'd almost call it lying. Please show me the forcings that are causing climate change at this time. Come on, you think you know enough, show it.
There is nothing so stupid as the hockey stick graph of temperature that we see trotted out by global warming reports -
Just as when in a discussion with an ID supporter they say 'irreducable complexity" you know they don't have direct knowledge but are parrotting arguments they believe to be valid, but which have since been rebutted, so to in discussions of climate change you know someone is way behind on the facts.
6 - I'll happily bet that we are reaching the end of a mini warm cycle (40 odd years since the last cooling mini cycle that ended in the 70's) and from 2010 onwards temperatures will drop and we'll find another story from the scientists to believe.
What you bet is irrelevent unless you can show the forcings that are making what you claim is happening happen.
Now this is the bit where you get angry, and refuse to how any facts...