Posts by TTATTelder

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

TTATTelder

Those comforting stories would not be so efficacious if they were held by individuals rather than communities. My problem is that those communities forget that they are dealing in myths rather than realities.- cofty

I was thinking the same thing when I was considering some of mrhhome's posts. It really is a multi-layered subject. If we were just talking about persons privately praying at home, that would be one thing.

When does religion ever stop there? LOL

It seems to go from the "stories" to "give me all your life resources" in about 30 seconds flat.

Also it's hard to seperate the subject matter from my anger toward WTBTS. I will definitely admit that.

-TE

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

TTATTelder

jgnat - I just saw that there are a lot of past threads about Ayn Rand.

That should be some interesting reading when I get a chance.

-TE

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

TTATTelder

TTAT Elder, why do we go back to the movie theatre to see the same story played over and over again, even though it is all fictional? - jgnat

Cool question.

A movie is a temporay experience that engages our intellect and emotions. It can take us away for a moment from our complicated lives and give us something else - usually simpler - to focus on and enjoy. It can even be inspirational.

Religous faith, as described by Cofty, is like deciding that Superman is real and basing your life decisions on that "truth". Big contrast there.

Just some thoughts. I don't claim to have anything figured out.

-TE

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

TTATTelder

We read fairy tales to our children. Why? - jgnat

I would say to that - leave children's stories to the children.

At some point, adults need to get out of the intellectual playground.

With that said, I know, like most things, it is easier said than done.

If our standard is that loyalty is a good thing until it causes harm, why does that only apply to a "real person" and not God? - mrhhome

I think in terms of trying to deal in reality. Some would say believing in an imaginary friend would be permissable unless it caused harm.

I don't think many would call such behavior mature, though.

I can't help but think of the writings of Ayn Rand when topics like this come up.

-TE

144

Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty in

the unknown writer of the gospel of john put the following words in jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.".

persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.. the more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.. this is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.. rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe.

"extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".. leaving the dogmatic claims of the watchtower is only a first step.

TTATTelder

Amen!

People seem to want a shelter from their own mind.

They willingly accept a fairy tail explanation of life to avoid the feelings of anxiety and fear that can come from not "knowing" all the answers.

Coming out of JW Fairy land is probably what it feels like to find out something terrible about one of your parents when you are still a child. You wish somehow you could go back to the way it was, simply because it was easier not knowing.

It takes courage to face real life. That is why it is so important to learn/develop critical thinking skills in order to not get sucked back into some other "faith" trap.

That is the point I got from the OP. Thanks for the reminder.

-TE

28

Has The WTS Reached Its Kobayashi Maru Moment?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/kobayashi_maru.

they observe decline.

they cut back most everywhere.

TTATTelder

I think the group either has to mellow out or shrink down to its hardcore members. It is probably trying to combine the two approaches, retaining only the ones who will 'obey any directive whether or not it is logical' (resistance is futile, after all), but also making it easier to be a Witness. - Apog

Interesting take. I see the same thing myself.

It is like an abuse cycle of ramping up control and then rewarding the captive with a treat.

They say "Do what we say even if it's crazy sh#%"

then throw the dubs a bone like:

"You can have one day off during CO week"

Pretty sick culty crap, but what else is new.

-TE

32

The Rants of a Dumbass Elder Still Serving

by TTATTelder in

ok in the effort of full disclosure, i have had a couple of drinks and recently experienced a circuit assembly and a bad experience with a co.. i don't know where to effing begin.

first of all the circuit assembly was a joke.

half the assembly was about pioneering and selling your soul to be a no-pay salesman for the borg.

TTATTelder

Thanks everybody for the jokes, advice, and support!

Thanks to Blondie for the research. I have never been clear on whether the kingdom was supposed to be ruling or just "present". Also never was clear on whether Jesus was just sitting on the throne or was ruling from the throne. Looks like from the quotes above that they say pretty consistently he is ruling.

Makes you wonder about the whole thousand-year-reign deal. Will they start saying we are 100 years into the thousand-year-reign?

Could you imagine trying to keep up with all their crazy contradictory multi-directional doctrines?

And all with a straight face and a superior tone. Crazy.

-TE

28

Has The WTS Reached Its Kobayashi Maru Moment?

by metatron in

jw
friends

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/kobayashi_maru.

they observe decline.

they cut back most everywhere.

TTATTelder

Something weird is going on that's for sure.

What do you mean by becoming a denomination?

Do you mean the leadership is backing off the "we are the only source of truth on God's green earth" stuff? Or do you mean that they are moving away from being a doomsday cult and more of a place just to worship?

-TE

Pakleds ....funny stuff Oubiette.

32

The Rants of a Dumbass Elder Still Serving

by TTATTelder in

ok in the effort of full disclosure, i have had a couple of drinks and recently experienced a circuit assembly and a bad experience with a co.. i don't know where to effing begin.

first of all the circuit assembly was a joke.

half the assembly was about pioneering and selling your soul to be a no-pay salesman for the borg.

TTATTelder

Ok in the effort of full disclosure, I have had a couple of drinks and recently experienced a circuit assembly and a bad experience with a CO.

I don't know where to effing begin. First of all the circuit assembly was a joke. Half the assembly was about pioneering and selling your soul to be a no-pay salesman for the borg. Experiences were shared about how "blessed" everyone is for putting kingdom interests first. In case you were wondering, 'kingdom interests' are pursuing what promotes the organization - nothing else. The organization was equated with God throughout the assembly. Interestingly the pioneers that claimed ultimate happiness for turning down money to pioneer, looked completely miserable when sitting in the audience once their 2 minutes of fame were over.

Tons of OT scriptures were read with modern day application like they were never intended for a civilization that existed millenniums ago.

The DO ( going the way of the dodo lol) at the assembly was seriously a delusional freak show. You should have heard his crazed black and white thinking. It sounded like talks from 1990. Blah blah Satan...blah blah demonic influence....blah blah worldly...getting destroyed ...live forever...faith in the organization...all said with a touch of bitterness and attitude like he secretly wanted people to suffer for their "sins". He actually referred to being "balanced" as an excuse for not working hard enough. He said we aren't supposed to be balanced, we are supposed to be "exerting ourselves vigorously".

It sounded like the rants of a man secretly bitter over his life choices. He was not personable, avoided interacting with people, seemed a little too into himself, a little too uninterested in his wife, and a little too interested in a couple of brothers 20 years his junior - just sayin'.

My CO run-in is pretty pathetic as well. We have an obvious rogue elder that the CO is taking sides with. Nice to see politics is alive and well in the organization. This elder is a complete used car salesman that will change his story at the drop of a hat to sell himself. The CO is completely bought in and is avoiding all contact with people that could tell him the other side of the story. This CO gives multiple talks in front of a couple thousand people and then stumbles and stutters when interacting with me. It's just so freaking obvious what's going on.

Oh...and in case you didn't know...the kingdom has been ruling for a hundred years already. We can tell this by the wonderful Spiritual Paradise we now have. People are "streaming" into Jehovahs organization. The focus is on the number of people coming in with no mention of how many are going out. You can tell this is Jehovahs organization because nobody else is translating the kingdom message in so many languages. I think they mentioned like 700 languages or something. It's obvious to me that they are working hard to have a bragging statistic to broadcast - since percentage of growth is not available.

Anyway, thanks for reading my rants.

-TE

28

My First "Publication Free" Study...

by HeyThere in

was not so publication free.

do witnesses not know how to talk about the bible without a wt pub to guide them?.

fist, she tried to get me to start once again in the bible teach book as if i had never said i didnt want to study from the pubs, so i reminded her.

TTATTelder

You mean to tell me .... a dub can't defend noo light from the scriptures?!!!!!!???.

What!!!!????

That's impossible.

I will have no more of these apostate lies.

I'm going back to mother(tm) cuz she always tells da truth(tm).

-TE