Escaping Indoctrination - Faith Isn't a Virtue.

by cofty 144 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cofty

  The unknown writer of the gospel of John put the following words in Jesus' mouth, "blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

  Persuading countless generations that it is a virtue to believe incredible things on insufficient evidence, is one of religion's cleverest tricks.

  The more incredible the claim; the more flimsy the evidence; the stronger the belief; the greater the virtue.

  This is the exact opposite of how we operate in every other aspect of our lives.

  Rational people must demand objective evidence for everything they are asked to believe. "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence".

  Leaving the dogmatic claims of the Watchtower is only a first step. Unless somebody learns to reject the lure of faith they are doomed to substitute one set of myths for another.
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  Seraphim23

  You’re leaving out the context which would augment the meaning of the verse you quoted. Evidence of the visual kind had just been given by the very one whose words those were. The issue was, with some evidence was often not believed after enough, even though it had been given!
• 

  cofty

  You’re leaving out the context which would augment the meaning of the verse you quoted.

  No my use of the words are entirely in context.

  Then Jesus told him, (Thomas) “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

  The issue was, with some evidence was often not believed after enough, even though it had been given!

  I'm sorry is that in English?
• 

  TTATTelder

  Amen!

  People seem to want a shelter from their own mind.

  They willingly accept a fairy tail explanation of life to avoid the feelings of anxiety and fear that can come from not "knowing" all the answers.

  Coming out of JW Fairy land is probably what it feels like to find out something terrible about one of your parents when you are still a child. You wish somehow you could go back to the way it was, simply because it was easier not knowing.

  It takes courage to face real life. That is why it is so important to learn/develop critical thinking skills in order to not get sucked back into some other "faith" trap.

  That is the point I got from the OP. Thanks for the reminder.

  -TE
• 

  cofty

  It takes courage to face real life. That is why it is so important to learn/develop critical thinking skills in order to not get sucked back into some other "faith" trap.

  Yes exactly!

  Isn't is just bizarre that faith is regarded as a good thing? How did we ever fall for that?
• 

  Oubliette

  Cofty, this subject of evidence is one that greatly interests me.

  I was planning on creating a thread on this very subject in the next couple of weeks, so I'm glad you brought it up.

  There are some questions that all of us would do to consider in reference to your thesis: escaping indoctrination.

  For example:

  • Evidence, what exactly is it?
  • How much evidence and what kinds of evidence do we need before we accept or reject a hypothesis or assertion?
  • How does the context and/or field of inquiry affect this?
  • What is sufficient evidence to reach a conclusion that has a high probability of certainty?
  • How do we ensure we are aware of our own biases, and how do we avoid having those biases color our interpretation of the evidence?
  • Are we open to consider not only confirming evidence, but also disconfirming evidence?

  I'm sure we can come up with some more questions along these lines.

  Thanks for starting this thread!
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  Seraphim23

  Well my reading of the whole thing is that belief should be based on evidence but continuing doubt after evidence is a bad thing. So Christians who doubt evolution would be a target of Jesus`words if said today.
• 

  villagegirl

  Dogma; is a principle or set of principles laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

  It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology, nationalism or belief system,

  and it cannot be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm,

  or the ideology itself. The term can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers

  or philosophical schools, public decrees, religion, or issued decisions of political authorities.

  - source the Dictionary

  Cofty you have your own Dogma. You seek to impose it on others.

  You judge others way of seeing the world, or belief systems or spiritual

  ideas, or anything you think is connected to any kind of thinking,

  other than your own narrow point of view. If its not atheism then

  you reject it, I continue to wonder why you even come here at all.

  This is an ex-JW forum for people trying to free themselves from

  rigid and unbending and male dominated, authority based on the idea

  that God has some central authority called the governing body.

  Freedom - may not lie in simply telling them there is no God,

  based on your own dogma that you insist this is the only acceptable

  course, you don't like the idea of God and believe you can prove he does

  not exist, which you cannot. How about just freedom and individuality,

  aside from any organization or doctrines. I believe in freedom, and I

  also believe in spiritual freedom for all.
• 

  cofty

  I advise anybody to expose themself mercilessly to the very best arguments against their personal beliefs, and to listen carefully their most compelling opponents.

  The onus is on those who would have us believe in extraordinary things to provide extraordinary evidence.

  Appeals to the supposed virtue of faith should be a red flag that the evidence is lacking.
• 

  cofty

  Cofty you have your own Dogma. You seek to impose it on others. - Villagegirl

  I have no dogma. My constant appeal is for intellectual honesty.

  There are theists here, like Jgnat who are intellectually honest - and then there are others like yourself.

  you don't like the idea of God and believe you can prove he does not exist

  I can show that any particular god does not exist. Which one are you speaking up for?

  Atheism is NOT the point. Evidence and honesty is the point.

  As JWs we pretended to know impossible things. It was deeply dishonest. As ex-JWs many are still in precisely the same position with just a different set of dogmas.