Posts by TTATTelder

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

TTATTelder

OEJ,

If the elders are rabid, busy-body, pot-stirrers - there may be nothing that really works to get them off his back.

But this org has the elders jumping through hoops left and right lately. There's another freakin' campaign in August.

I think giving them what they want is the easiest way to slip through the cracks as the elders move into Campaign August, a new service year in September, an upcoming annual meeting, anniversary of the "kingdom", and even more importantly this "Zone Visit" thing I think is in November.

Quit being a squeaky wheel and you get quickly forgotten in all this mayhem.

It is my understanding that DD is still attending a few meetings and such with the Fam doing his fade. He could easily just slip back into the "weak attender" category as opposed to "potential apostate".

I'm also working on the assumption, which I think is correct, that the reason they are visiting him is because of these "doubts" they have heard about - not really because he has missed a few meetings.

-TE

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

TTATTelder

One more thing:

The whole "avoid the meeting thing" could work, but IMO could more likely backfire in that it keeps you in suspicion and thus on the radar. If you are on the radar you get brought up at quarterly meetings and CO visits. I like the fake "thanks for saving me" meeting to get them off your back myself.

-TE

68

A "follow up" meeting?!?!

by DATA-DOG in

well, now they want a follow up visit!

when you tell the elders that you have doubts and they say " its okay, we have had our doubts.

having doubts is not apostasy.

TTATTelder

Just throwing my 2 cents here:

I'm still serving as an elder as many of you have in the past and I can tell you that they "investigated" you the first time. Then they reported back to the body.

Here's the thing:

Regardless of how the "cool" brother personally feels, they are obligated to act according to the consensus of the body. If this other brother (the not cool one) spewed some personal feelings or negativity about you or the bad impression he got - then this next visit could be to push the issue harder.

If it's 3 brothers its already a committee. You have a right to ask if this has turned into something judicial.

It prob hasn't yet, but still could. Many times this next visit is a 2nd-investigation/give-counsel meeting. In other words, they most likely are being sent to give you stern counsel, warnings, share scriptures, pray, yada yada in order to "readjust" you. But they also simultaneously will be asking a few more probing questions to see if they can fish out anything that you may have held back in the first meeting. If there's more stuff uncovered then they will report back again and it could escalate.

Honestly I have to say, as much as we all on here like to be forthright and tell it like it is, you do not owe these men the truth. A fade is a deception by definition.

I personally reserve the right to bald face lie to any elders that ask me anything ever. In other words answer the questions however you must to make them go away. You are on the radar now. That's not good. But if they feel like they "saved" you then they will hopefully go back to the body and pat each other on the back and move along. Then of course you can get back to the evil plan LOL.

-TE

14

Elders Can't Simply Go Back to Being Ministerial Servants...

by TTATTelder in

as a currently serving "awake" elder caught in the web of family, spouse, employer, etc.

etc..... i have often wondered why an elder cannot simply drop back to ministerial servant if he so desired (because of stress, circumstances, health).. on paper a currently serving elder in good standing more than qualifies to be a ms. that is obviously the case by their own hierarchy structure and definitions of qualification.. but...under their current arrangement....theoretically a man could give a district convention talk one week to 10,000 people, step down as an elder the following day due to stress, and not "qualify" to give a 5 min part on the next week's service meeting in front of 50 people.

doesn't make a lot of sense.. so my question is this.....why do you think the wt forces a man to drop all the way "down" to publisher if he no longer wants to serve as an elder?.

TTATTelder

I agree with many of the comments above.

I think it is definitely designed to entrap elders by not allowing them to slip down a rung. They are essentially punished for walking away and branded as weak, without-proper-zeal, etc. It is an all or nothing proposition. How can they defend this as "Christian"?

The announcement is the same as well. If a brother is removed for screwing a prostitute or simply steps aside because of stress, the anouncement is "Brother SO and SO is no longer serving as an elder" which, by the way, always sounds like a bad thing when read from the platform.

Check this out from the "Secret" Elder Book:

A brother resigns for personal reasons.

Two elders should first discuss the matter with him.
Why does he wish to resign? Is he Scripturally
disqualified? If his personal circumstances hin-
der him from doing what he would like, can the
elders be of any assistance and encouragement?
Until his circumstances change, perhaps they
can lighten his load for a period of time while
he continues to serve. If, after this discussion,
he still feels he wants to resign, then the Con-
gregation Service Committee should write the
branch office and give sufficient information so
that the reasons for resignation are clear. Full de-
tails should be provided as to why he chose to
relinquish his privilege of service.

(italics mine)

They see this man as dangerous. It's like a "you are either for us or against us" kind of thing.

Anyway, I think the topic is an interesting one. It is one of those things right under the noses of the JW's and never gets acknowledged.

It is a less-controversial subject that could potentially be brought up in an effort to get someone thinking.

-TE

14

Elders Can't Simply Go Back to Being Ministerial Servants...

by TTATTelder in

as a currently serving "awake" elder caught in the web of family, spouse, employer, etc.

etc..... i have often wondered why an elder cannot simply drop back to ministerial servant if he so desired (because of stress, circumstances, health).. on paper a currently serving elder in good standing more than qualifies to be a ms. that is obviously the case by their own hierarchy structure and definitions of qualification.. but...under their current arrangement....theoretically a man could give a district convention talk one week to 10,000 people, step down as an elder the following day due to stress, and not "qualify" to give a 5 min part on the next week's service meeting in front of 50 people.

doesn't make a lot of sense.. so my question is this.....why do you think the wt forces a man to drop all the way "down" to publisher if he no longer wants to serve as an elder?.

TTATTelder

As a currently serving "awake" elder caught in the web of family, spouse, employer, etc. etc....

I have often wondered why an elder cannot simply drop back to Ministerial Servant if he so desired (because of stress, circumstances, health).

On paper a currently serving elder in good standing more than qualifies to be a MS. That is obviously the case by their own hierarchy structure and definitions of qualification.

But...under their current arrangement....theoretically a man could give a District Convention talk one week to 10,000 people, step down as an elder the following day due to stress, and not "qualify" to give a 5 min part on the next week's service meeting in front of 50 people. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

So my question is this.....why do you think the WT forces a man to drop all the way "down" to publisher if he no longer wants to serve as an elder?

-TE

58

Major reversal for the Watchtower imminent - Countdown: only 5 left.

by Focus in

jw
friends

.

focus.

("armageddon" class).

TTATTelder

Nice post.

It continues to blow me away when I read older magazines and see how authoratative they made their pronouncements - to be such epic fails.

What a total embarassment for them. No wonder these magazines are nowhere to be found on JW.org.

*As a side note, I recently noticed the "All Scripture Inspired" book has disappeared from the the JW.org library. I'm sure the reasoning book will be gone soon as well.

-TE

20

BOE 2014-06-09 Adjusted approval and financing process to accelerate Kingdom Hall and Assembly Hall construction

by WatchTower87 in

2014-06-09 adjusted approval and financing process to accelerate kingdom hall and assembly hall construction.

to all bodies of elders.

the congregation secretary should arrange for this letter to be retained in the congregation permanent file of policy letters.

TTATTelder

A brother just came up to me and said that he will no longer be able to donate bathroom supplies because of the new arrangement of giving more money for construction.

So now the local expenses will now go up about a hundred dollars a month or more because "mother" is now getting that money.

This of course comes out after the commitments and resolutions have already been passed concerning how much will be sent to the branch.

The branch is sucking up every dollar they can and the local brothers are left holding the bag.

The fall out from all this will go on for months.

-TE

48

Florida' s Gold Coast-- Latest WatchTower REAL ESTATE

by rip van winkle in

http://gotoby.com/news/article/2245/watchtower-buys-former-faa-training-facility-in-palm-coast-for-$7025000.

watchtower buys former faa training facility in palm coast for $7,025,000the facility was owned by embry riddle and had been leased to the faa.

watchtower plans to use the facility in much the same manner as did the faa.by toby tobinadd a comment palm coast, fl june 30, 2014 watchtower, an entity ofjehovahs witnesses, purchased the former faa training facility in palm coast from embry riddle aeronautical university for $7,025,000.

TTATTelder

Its prob a new "School for Kingdom Evangelizers" training camp.

As you may remember this new "school" is open to retirees up to 65 and even single sisters (Gasp!), and of couse the normal single brothers and childless couples.

Latest letter said the enrollees have to go where the branch sends them, though.

So no more of the old MTS-grad shenanigans of just going back home to pick up chicks with the new title. LOL

-TE

51

Elders answer questions about the changes of the blood ban

by opusdei1972 in

some days ago two elders visited my sister because she has not been attending the meetings more than one year.

this time she prepared notes containing watchtower past teachings about the blood ban so as to ask them for those changes, and it seems that the elders were also prepared for her past questions.

for instance she showed them that "albumin" was considered "under scriptural ban" in 1956 (read the page 20 of awake, september 8).

TTATTelder

For those interested - There is some very interesting commentary on the JW blood issue on the Beroean Pickets website.

Here is the address:

http://meletivivlon.com/category/blood/

The 3 article series was insightful in my opinion.

-TE

48

Florida' s Gold Coast-- Latest WatchTower REAL ESTATE

by rip van winkle in

http://gotoby.com/news/article/2245/watchtower-buys-former-faa-training-facility-in-palm-coast-for-$7025000.

watchtower buys former faa training facility in palm coast for $7,025,000the facility was owned by embry riddle and had been leased to the faa.

watchtower plans to use the facility in much the same manner as did the faa.by toby tobinadd a comment palm coast, fl june 30, 2014 watchtower, an entity ofjehovahs witnesses, purchased the former faa training facility in palm coast from embry riddle aeronautical university for $7,025,000.

TTATTelder

What happened to building all those kingdom halls?

I thought that's why everybody had to pledge money.

-TE