How could he be an elder and sub CO... or even a publisher? Blows my mind. He must not have believed any of it. How could he give talks encouraging others not to do what he was doing all along? When I was a JW, I was not perfect, but, I was real. I couldn't have given talks unless I was living up to the material.
Posts by Magnum
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15Current Elder and Sub CO Arrested
by James Jack inhttps://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/comments/stlb8r/valley_head_elder_charged_trigger_warning_cp_link/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf.
known his wife her whole life.
they have served both in mississippi and minnesota..
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65
Ukraine - Nato - US crisis
by mikeflood indon't understand....but this crisis in ukraine seems to be getting out of control....i mean, everybody knows how to start a war..... by the way, as always, people at the borg are having a field day.....
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Magnum
Former big time gangsta US has been sent to the retirement home and doesn’t even realise.
Slimboyfat, while, for years I have enjoyed your posts, and admired your insight, intellect, etc., I disagree with your tone about the U.S.
I, for one, being a citizen of the U.S., realize the U.S. doesn't have the power it once did relative to the rest of the world, and I lament that; it scares me. I cannot imagine the world without a strong U.S. I cannot imagine a world in which Russia and China have the upper hand. Do you resent the U.S.? We share a huge border with Canada, but Canada doesn't fear us. Do you think Canada had rather be bordered by China... or Russia?
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44
The Poor the Wealthy and the Middle Class
by Simon inthe poor spendthe middle-class savethe wealthy invest.
the unique circumstances of the lockdown and stimulus checks has highlighted these differences in stark ways.. on one hand, you have jumps in sales and valuation of companies like foot locker and nike, as people spend their "free" government money on sneakers.
they blow it on useless tat.
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Magnum
Been really busy and haven't had time to post here, but saw this thread and wanted to mention the following.
About thirty years ago, I was at a house where a death had occurred. A well-known non-JW attorney who lived in the neighborhood had stopped by to offer his condolences. The attorney was offered a meal. I could tell he didn't want to eat there, but was virtually forced to. There was an older JW female there who was trying to impress the attorney with her goody-goodieness. He had his head over his plate taking a bite, and at that point she said in kind of a sarcastic way "and people think that money brings happiness."
The attorney tilted his head to the right (while still leaned over the plate), and immediately replied "but, it sure does make life easier." The JW was speechless; she thought he was going to agree with her.
I have never forgotten that. I can see the details vividly in mind right now. I have found his words to be some of the most accurate I've ever heard. I think back over all my years of struggling financially because of being a zealous JW. We always had to make major decisions and about how and when to spend the little money we had. Could we get our shoes fixed? Could we get tires for the car? How much longer could we go without getting dental or medical treatment? Everything was so hard.
Even now it's hard... all because of not having money. Having money would make our lives vastly easier. Just in the past few months, we had to buy a used vehicle because I work out of town, and my wife was stranded at home with no vehicle (she works from home). We ended up buying a small pickup - a work model, so it has no cruise control. I now drive it to work, and I hate driving the 4hrs each way to work out of town each week because it's a chore without cruise control. I bought an aftermarket one, but so far, have been unsuccessful installing it. Just a little while ago, I called around and couldn't find anybody that will mess with it.
So, if we had had enough money, we could have bought a truck with cruise control, and just that little thing would make my life a lot easier. I would have the cruise control, and I wouldn't have the frustration of trying to install it.
P.S. If anybody has had experience installing a Rostra after-market cruise control, please PM me. The instructions are horrendous.
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29
If you think Watchtower is disappearing any time soon…
by Reservations inyou are sadly mistaken.. i hear people say it on here all the time, and dare i say his name *cough* lloyd evans *cough* has said it a number of times, that watchtower is running scared and watchtower is in decline….. we need to put in perspective the decrease from the 2020 report.
if we calculate a yearly -0.6 decrease over a 10 year period from 2020 figures it leaves us the grand total number of witnesses of:.
by 2030: - 7,933,479. by 2040: - 7,471,357. by 2050: - 7,036,154. i agree that this is a significant decrease, but let’s not kid ourselves, the wt organisation will still be alive and well even with an annual 0.6% loss.
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Magnum
I think it is flawed reasoning to assume a constant (or linear) rate of decrease. I believe the decrease will become greater (exponential) over the next few years.
I think it's going to reach a point that a snowball or cascade effect will occur. I think the org fears going back to meeting in person because it's not going to be the same... the halls will be emptier and the preaching work will be weak. That can only have a negative effect on JWs. That effect could be contagious. As more and more wake up and leave or just become inactive, the effect can spread rapidly (exponentially).
I've been monitoring exjw reddit and have found the number of JWs, especially young ones, leaving to be amazing. There are a lot of really insightful posts showing that these people have sized up the org, the religion, and the GB. They have seen through the deception. Young ones are not zealous and they are not deep-rooted in the org as the old-timers are, and the old-timers (those late 50's and above who can remember the glory days of JWdom) are dying off rapidly (and some are waking up, too). Barely any new ones will come in from the field, and those who do will not be the kind that can support and sustain the org. They won't be like the intelligent ones who became JWs in, for example, the 70's & 80's.
It seems to me that the wind is not filling the sails of JWs anymore. JWism is a religion that is based on growth and a bold, strong preaching work. The growth is over and the preaching work is a faint, weak whisper. That will have to get a lot of JWs to start thinking. Also, the internet continues to destroy the org and the religion. And... as somebody already mentioned in this thread, the lawsuits are stacked up against the org.
That "something massive" you mentioned could just be a tipping point at which a cascade effect occurs. There must be frustration now among the rank and file. There must be lack of zeal and lack of excitement. If they go back to meeting in person, the decreasing numbers will become more obvious. If they don't go back to meeting in person, the effect of meeting online could continue to weaken zeal (lots of anecdotal evidence on exjw reddit that it's doing that). The tipping could be reached and there could be a mass exodus. To me, the future looks really bad for JWdom.
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58
No more Questions from MINIMUS
by was a new boy inminimus former jw, prolific poster on jwn died.. minimus.
joined 19 years ago.
started 4,139 topics.
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Magnum
Oh, I hope not! I've been extremely busy lately working morn til late at night and haven't been checking here. I just checked for the first time in a while and this is what I see. Somebody asked how old he was. I'm pretty sure he was 60ish... I'm thinking early 60's. I was not aware of his having any health issues. I think he played tennis a lot. My insides literally did something (moved or something) - I don't know how to describe it - when I read that he had died. I so hope it's not true.
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154
Logical Fallacy… can I get some help here?
by DATA-DOG indr. leanna wen is currently spreading the fallacy that unvaccinated persons should have vaccines mandated because they are like drunk drivers… they have the right to be drunk at home she says, but wanting to be part of society at large without being vaccinated is like driving drunk and putting others at risk.
besides ignoring the science proving that persons who have had sars cov-2 have natural immunity that equals or exceeds anything that could be imparted from the mrna shot, without the side effects or need for boosters, ( sorry big pharma, you’ll be losing $$$ ) this illustration just smacks of illogical reasoning.
it reminds me of the borg comparing getting baptized to getting your driver’s license.
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Magnum
I'm focusing, not on the particulars of the illustration you mentioned, but the general logical fallacy.
This is logically fallacious. I have given a significant amount of thought to this particular fallacy and don't know whether it has been named. I started thinking about it back when I was a JW and encountered people in the ministry who would use illustrations to try to prove the Trinity doctrine. I was once working with my long-time JW grandfather in the door-to-door work. He encountered a man who told him that the trinity is like an egg.... there are three parts - white, yolk, and shell - but they make up one egg.
My grandfather was frustrated, and later he asked me "How can I counter that?" After thinking about it, I realized that illustrations don't prove anything; they simply can help people to understand a point one's making whether that point is true or not. The answer my grandfather could have given to the man is "No, it's not like that."
Here is an example of an illustration that's wrong: Many of us might remember being taught in school that electrons orbit the nuclei of atoms like planets orbit the sun. We might remember images like this:
The problem is, though, that it's simply not true. The illustration is completely wrong. Electrons are not little particles that orbit around in paths as shown in the image. They do not behave that way at all. They are not in any way like planets that behave largely according to classical mechanics. They don't even follow certain paths. They obey quantum mechanics. One can only speak of the probably of finding an electron in a certain place at a given time, and the probability clouds look nothing like the orbitals shown above.
So, the fact that one can produce an illustration to try to prove a point in no way proves that point. The fact that one can say that electrons orbit nuclei as planets orbit the sun proves nothing.
One could simply and easily and logically correctly refute her by saying "No, they're not like drunk drivers."
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11
Beyond the Watchtower
by BereanThinker7 inhttps://www.ebay.com/itm/203474749415.
im a watchtower/bible students history nerd.
i find the movement that engulfed my entire family fascinating.
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Magnum
TD, when I clicked on the link, I got
The file you requested has been deleted
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18
The Light Actually IS Getting Brighter
by Magnum inthe light really is getting brighter, but what kind?
i can think of three types of figurative light in this context:.
1) that which jws refer to and they base on pr 4:18. light on a path... light that gets brighter.
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Magnum
The light really IS getting brighter, but what kind? Which one?
I can think of three types of figurative light in this context:
1) That which JWs refer to and they base on Pr 4:18. Light on a path... light that gets brighter. They say that their understanding of the Bible gets better with passing time. "We have new light on this point." However, Proverbs chapter 4 is not about doctrine, and there is no evidence that any doctrinal light has gotten brighter for JWs. They've changed doctrine many times, but no one can show that the new teachings are more accurate than the older ones. That would have to be proved in order for them to claim evidence that there is doctrinal light has gotten brighter.
2) The light that should emanate from those who have truth and properly represent God. Mt 5:15,16: "Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven." For a while, in years past, it seemed that a light was emanating from JWdom and individual JWs as they seemed bold in their ministry and willing to take on challenges. Now they run from challenges with their tails tucked between their legs. They are doctrinally weak and they are no longer bold and courageous. So, this light has actually become far weaker.
3) The light that shines on JWdom. I can't think of any Scriptural reference to this type of figurative light, but it does exist. We can say that as we gain evidence about and learn more about some thing or entity, the light shining on it gets brighter. For example, if we are investigating a murder, at first, we might just have a dead body. There is very little light on the situation, but, as information is obtained, the light gets brighter and the situation can be seen far more clearly.
Think about if from another angle. Criminals, deceivers, cheaters, etc. love the cover of darkness; they don't like light. They don't want light shining on them. JWdom is like that. It doesn't want light; it doesn't want scrutiny; it doesn't want to be analyzed. It wants JWs and others to just accept what the leaders say and to research and study only in JW approved materials.
Before the internet, JWs could, in effect, operate in darkness (with some exceptions). Then came the great bright light of the internet. JWdom hated it and resisted it at first. It then realized that it had to selectively embrace it. The internet has seriously wounded JWdom. It has shone a great light on it that is getting brighter as more and more the failures, flaws, deceptions, weakness, etc. are seen in greater detail with the increasing light. Yes, in the last two decades or so, the light that shines on JWdom (primarily due to the internet) has become brighter and brighter.
If JWs were what they claim to be, they would love the exposure. They would love for something like the internet to come along and shine a great light on them so people can see what they really are, but they hate the exposure. Thus, there's no way they can be what they claim to be. They aren't lovers of light; they're lovers of darkness.
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Magnum
And... if you take the 305 in "started 305 topics" and add to it 300 (because "Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years" -Ge 5:22) and then add 2 (because "God made two great lights" -Ge 1:16), you get 607BC, the year of Jerusalem's destruction. [reasoning courtesy of David Splane - master of the new "generation" doctrine]
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Eye-Opener
by ElderStuckin ineach eye-opener in my awakening had nothing to do with apostates.
it was always by looking directly at the so-called spiritual food that helped me awaken.. in 2019 they changed the wording of the second of two baptismal questions which are answered aloud before the audience.
now i realize that these questions have been adjusted over the years.
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Magnum
There's got to be some reason for the latest wording change (removing "spirit-directed"). Anybody know (or guess) why? I strongly feel the reason is self-serving.