FlyingHighNow - are you responding to my post? If so, I don't get your point. I wasn't addressing the OP. I was saying there's a lot of apologizing for using the term "window washer", but I don't think it's necessary.
Posts by Magnum
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84One thing about this site that bothers me
by keyser soze inthe constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.
but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.
one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.
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Sister kills a boy in an accident! A sad, sad story in more ways than one.
by DATA-DOG inhttp://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/22/4909006/youth-struck-killed-in-kansas.html.
a buddy of mine told me about this story.
a sister driving through a neighborhood struck two children, killing one.
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Magnum
average joe - your post betrays a lack of comprehension on your part.
slanderous, just random hate filled accusations
Where the hell did you get that? I haven't see anything remotely approaching that in this thread.
Who here wouldnt lose sleep and be a total wreck after killing someones child ???? I bet thats exactly her situation right now.. I bet shes heart broken. I bet shes like every other normal person in this world.
What does that have to do with anything in this thread? That's a strawman argument. You just created a big old strawman and attacked your made up strawman rather than the point(s) being made in this thread. I think I can speak for everybody who posted on this thread and say of course, the sister's upset and has every right to be and we feel sorry for her and wish it hadn't happened, but again, that's not the point, and nobody has said or implied otherwise.
Even if this account did turn out to be not completely factual, it can still serve as an illustration about the way many JWs are. The way they claim Jah answers prayers and maneuvers events in the human realm is unreasonable. I can give you a factual example; I heard it with my own ears. An older sister recently told me about a disabled girl of JW parents in a neighboring state - a girl I had seen a few times; she told me the girl died recently. The girl was mentally disabled. She lived her entire life in what looked like a big baby stroller. I don't think she was really aware of her surroundings. Her face and limbs were contorted. I asked how old she was when she died. The sister said "33". I expressed shock and said I always thought of her being about 14 - I guess becuase of her appearance. The sister said she did, too, but that "no, she was 33, and, you know, the doctors said she wouldn't live that long." Then, with a sparkle in her eyes and a grin on her face, the sister said to me "Isn't Jehovah Wonderful?"
I was thinking "WHAT?" First, so you know Jah divinely intervened and extended the girl's life? How do you know? If he did, how did he choose 33 as the cutoff for the life extension? Second, why didn't he just cause her to be born without the defect so she could live a normal life - not one as a vegetable defecating in her pants for 33 years? It just doesn't sound reasonable; it doesn't add up. Yet, JWs can spin a story to make it give the impression they want it to. I've seen many, many examples of that.
And like I indicated in a post above, Jah will let an infant roast alive in a blazing inferno screaming at the top of her 18-month-old lungs, yet he will help a pioneer get a new dress for a convention? Doesn't add up.
You missed the point of the OP and the subsequent posts. Get off your high horse. If you're going to preach, at least be accurate and address the point(s) at hand. It's ironic that you attack the accuracy of the opening post, yet your words themselves are not accurate. You claimed there were "hate filled accusations" in this thread when there weren't any.
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One thing about this site that bothers me
by keyser soze inthe constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.
but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.
one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.
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Magnum
I'm not sure I agree with all the apologizing. I honestly don't remember whether I've ever referred to window washing on this site, but if I have, I'm not yet ready to apologize. I don't think anybody who's used the term on this site was speaking in general in a derogatory manner about people who wash windows for a living. I think that term just symbolizes a general concept about JWs, a feeling about the org, a disdain for the uppitiness of JWs, etc. I honestly believe that the org wants its members to perform work like window washing, painting, plumbing, cleaning, etc. For several reasons, it's easier to control them when they are employed in such fields.
I have done all the kinds of work I just mentioned and other types like lawn maintenance, digging out septic tank lines, swinging a hammer, etc. So if I speak in a derogatory manner about, for example, a JW's being a window washer, I'm not referring to all people, including some JWs, who are window washers. I"ve done that kind of work myself and I think I'm intelligent, well-read, educated, capable, etc. As I've indicated, I'm just referring to a general concept having to do with JWs.
Suppose I wanted to be a nuclear physicist. Well, if I were a JW and pursued such, I would be a bad example. However, if I aspired to be a window washer, I would be interviewed at assemblies. It's that concept (including other angles) that I think we're referring to. If a person likes window washing and can make money at it... then fine. That doesn't mean he's lacking intelligence, is not well-read, etc. I truly feel that way.
Suppose, though, that I have a PhD in mathematics, yet I choose to do window washing because I actually prefer the work and associated things like the schedule. I'm obviously smart, yet still, that doesn't nullify the fact the world would hold me in higher regard as a mathematics professor than it would as a window washer. We can't be overly politically correct and not acknowledge that. To be realistic and honest, the world in general doesn't hold window washers, janitors, plumbers, painters, construction workers, etc. in high regard. Again, though, that doesn't mean that all who do such work are in any way inferior The smartest JW I know is a janitor. He is very smart and literally could be a college professor teaching anything from engineering to ancient languages.
So, again, if I use the term "window washer" in a derogatory manner, I'm not generalilzing and speaking derogatorily of all who are such and I don't think there's anything inherently lowly about the work. I'm referring to, for example, uppity, big-shot JWs who think they're really something, but outisde JWdom would be nothing but window washers. There, I said it. As I think somebody sort of alluded to in an earlier post, that term just has a ring to it and just works to symbolize the concept. No offence to anyone, and I might change my mind and apologize after thinking about it more.
P.S. Something else just popped in my head. I think we should admit that there is a perceived status and rank associated with different types of work and in different fields. Consider the field of medicine. I get angry hearing practicing physicians and medical students speaking in a derogatory manner about certain fields of medicine - primarily family medicine and psychiatry. Among many in the medical field, those fields are at the bottom, they are less prestigious, etc. So my point is that I feel that there is a perceived rank, and that cleaning, painting, window washing, framing, etc. are in the lower parts of the stack. The term "window washing" to me just symbolizes all those fields that are not held in high regard by society in general and, to be honest, don't require the education that lots of other fields do (even though some doing the work might be brilliant).
Consider a mother who's at her high school class reunion and the attendees are telling what their children do (a real example inspired me to use this illustration). Even though window washing can be wholesome, financially rewarding work, would a mother really be glad and proud to tell her old classmates that her child is a window washer, especially without providing further info like saying that's what he chose to do so he could support himself in his volunteer work? Think about it. They're proceeding around the room telling what their children do - "CPA", "upper management", "attorney", "sales executive", "physician", "dentist", "architect", "veterinarian", "scientist", "window washer". Which one really stands out? Be honest.
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Message to everyone on this site
by FFtruther144 into active jws who visit this site, read the posts, and think about the subjects being discussed: i give my deepest respect and honor.
i know how very difficult it is, especially if you are born and raised.
the wts makes it a top priority, with no expense seemingly spared, to make it impossible for you to find out that there is someone behind the curtain.
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Magnum
You sound like a kindred spirit. We might find that we disagree on some things, but at least we both have the strength of character to go up to the curtain and see what's behind it and honestly admit what we see.
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Watchtower Really Does Totally Take The Position of Jesus
by OnTheWayOut inwatchtower has said that jesus is not the mediator of anyone but for the anointed.
then they tell you that they are jehovah's organization and that the flock should obey them.. basically, the watchtower corp. and it's governing body is taking the place of jesus as the mediator for people.
christianity, even by it's name, focuses on making jesus known.
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Magnum
David7676: You all love the truth but you don,t have wisdom as said in daniel
You just showed us you're like the rest of JWs. You speak in broad, simplistic generalizations. You all are scared of specifics. Your argument is childishly elementary.
So you argue that we don't have wisdom??? We could argue the same about you.
Tell us specifically what it is that leads you to believe we don't have wisdom.
David7676: It looks to me that money and pride premiate these pages.
Yes, there is lot on these pages about money and pride - the JW organization's desire for money and its proud, self-righteous, Pharisaic quality.
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JW Literature... Lots of it... what to burn and what to keep?
by ILoveTTATT ini have lots and lots of watchtower literature... and i don't know what could be useful in the future to have as a reference or as a keeper.
i am definitely keeping the 1993 and 1994 bound volumes of the awake!
(no, we are not false prophets... down in the same page, the generation of 1914 will not pass... also the youths who put god the watchtower first).
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Magnum
Can you please provide more detail as to what is quoted below? I would like to look up the references. For example, do you know where the "no, we are not false prophets" material is... which mag?
ILoveTTATT: I am definitely keeping the 1993 and 1994 bound volumes of the Awake! (No, we are not false prophets... down in the same page, the generation of 1914 will not pass... also the youths who put God The Watchtower first)
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Watchtower Really Does Totally Take The Position of Jesus
by OnTheWayOut inwatchtower has said that jesus is not the mediator of anyone but for the anointed.
then they tell you that they are jehovah's organization and that the flock should obey them.. basically, the watchtower corp. and it's governing body is taking the place of jesus as the mediator for people.
christianity, even by it's name, focuses on making jesus known.
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Magnum
OnTheWayOut: And now this has been brought to my attention: Jehovah's Witnesses have an insistence on calling their teachings and their way of life and their very organization by the name, "The Truth." Jesus said that he was The Truth. John 14:6 says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." By calling itself "The Truth" (a title Jesus claimed for himself) the organization was able to usurp Jesus and place itself in Jesus' place officially as mediator. Yes, your average Christian hears "the truth" and thinks of Jesus but your average JW automatically thinks of a printing corporation when he hears "the truth."
Wow! Powerful point. Never thought about that before.
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Broad and Spacious Road to Destruction, or Narrow Gate to Life??
by stuckinarut2 inso we all know of the parable / illustration at matt 7:13.
"go in through the narrow gate, because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones finding it, or going in through it".
here is a brain snapping thought that hit me!:.
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Magnum
I actually have been thinking something very similar; I just did not think of applying that scriptural passage to it, but it makes sense. JWs are taking the broad way, the easy way. Ironically they think they'er taking the hard route, the narrow way. But they're just going with the JW flow, never bucking the system because they're blind and/or ignorant and/or spineless.
If they can't see TTATT at least to some degree, then they're unreasonble or they lack the ability to reason. JWs are self-righteous and to a degree, even idolatrous. They idolize, for example, GB members, certain Bethelites, power elders, even Bethel itself.
If I were God, I'd want people like us to be my servants, people who have the ability to use reason and logic and can recognize truth.
The last few months it's as though scales have been falling off my eyes. A lot of the Bible passages that I for years applied to others now seem to apply to JWs. I was actually going to start a thread on it when I collected all my notes. One of the verses is Mt 7:21-23.
21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew YOU! Get away from me, YOU workers of lawlessness.
I can imagine JWs saying "but Lord, didn't we go to all the meetings and highlight some words in our Watchtowers and pioneer and donate money and clean the hall and bow to the GB.......?" And then he says to them "get away from you blind, ignorant idolaters. And they will be shocked. I'd love to see it.
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CO Special Meeting with MS & Elders
by Syme inwhen the co visits a cognregation this semester, a special meeting with elders and mss is sceduled tuesday night, right after the normal meeting.
does anyone know what this meeting is about?
this special meeting is held at the beginning of the co-week, and is different from the standard meeting with personnel which is held friday evening.
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Magnum
Didn't somebody say in an earlier thread that the meeting is to inform elders (& maybe ministerial servants) that the GB wants them to call on all inactive ones during the week of the visit and maybe report to the CO the results at the end of the week?
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What I really hate....
by Perversion of a truth inis that i was born into this cult, taught and believed that i was going to live forever, , that i was never going to have to die.
now i am in my mid 30's realizing that this life is all there is and that after that i am dead forever and i am terrified.
i don't want this to be all there is, , i don't want to just live a few years on this beautiful planet and then become non existent forever!
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Magnum
I fully understand your not wanting to die; I don't want to be eternally nonexistent, either.
It sounds to me that your problem is anxiety. I was with a close family member in her 30's about a year and a half ago at a mall. She had an anxiety attack and thought she was having a heart attack. She went to the emergency room. They did an EKG and said her heart was OK. Cost $2000.00. Fortunately, insurance paid for it.
Now I am in my mid 30's realizing that this life is all there is and that after that I am dead forever and I am terrified.
I am significantly older than you, so I am closer to death. I also worry that, because of having been a JW for over 30 years, I'll never be able to retire, and therefore, will never get to travel or do any of the things I like to do.
About seven years ago, my wife and I were riding down an interstate highway on a long journey. She was driving and I was sitting in the passenger seat doing some deep thinking. I was really smelling something wrong in JWdom at the time and was beginning to doubt the everlasting life stuff. I did not have a panic attack, but I had a really bad, trapped feeling. The best way I can describe it is by saying that I felt like a goldfish in a small goldfish bowl sitting on a small table in the middle of a desert. There would be no hope for such a fish. He would have some time left, but eventually the water would evaporate and he would be gone. There was no nearby pond or stream that he could possibly escape to. That's how I felt. I felt that time was running down and there was no escape - nowhere I could go to escape death.
I am surprised that I am not in deep depression now, as I was one who so strongly anticipated paradise. I guess I'm not in deep depression because I still have hope that there's stuff we don't know and that maybe there is a Creator and we are involved in some sort of test or something. I admit I have no answers now, but am searching. I just keep some kind of hope. Who knows? If there is a Creator, maybe he's looking for people like us who have the ability to recognize TTATT.