This conversation reminds me of a time I was out in FS and got into a long and interesting discussion with a man who was very well versed in the bible and its history. At one point, when I referenced "early Christianity" he countered with: "You mean Paul-ianity, don't you?"
willyloman
JoinedPosts by willyloman
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Paul's Letters came first and the Gospel response was a refutation
by Terry inif you pick up your bible and look at the order of the books in the new testament you'll find that the gospels come before paul's letters.. this might casually indicate to the unaware that the gospel writers actually wrote before paul.
paul's letters containing paul's remarkable theology came first.
(chronologically).
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Newbie here, need some input
by FollowerOfSet ini wanted to introduce myself, and need some advice.. i dissassociated myself back in 1995. haven't had much of anything to do with my family since then.
they are all witnesses, and very dedicated to their beliefs.
so after 15 years without a simple howdy from them, now they are coming around again and being very nice, but it reminds me of when people would have parts in the ministry school...it seems rehearsed and fake.
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willyloman
Just keep in mind that YOU hold the high moral ground. By leaving this dysfunctional "family" (and by that I mean the organization), you exercised your conscience - which is what they preach, right? JWs think they hold the high ground in matters moral and spiritual, but the truth is they do not. Those who come to see the light and leave of their own accord are the truly righteous in this universe.
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Help for newly disassociated member
by VanillaMocha73 inhaven't posted here in a long while, but i was seeking two people who used to be members and whose names i cannot remember for the life of me.... my mom da'd this week for doctrinal reasons - realizing that the jw is all about idolatry of a group of men / organization.
she has been a jw for 35+ years and anointed, so she is getting a lot of pressure from elders, etc.
i wanted to find the grandmotherly lady from england that has been through this and also the sister / brother from edmonds, wa that i knew when i was in the kh there.
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willyloman
You could be thinking of "Mulan" who doesn't post much here any more. She lives in WA.
Good news about your mother coming to realize the WT's problems are systemic and cannot be fixed. Sounds as if she acted upon her conscience and if so she did the right thing and that will make it easier for her to endure. My wife and I left after 30 years, only we just quit going and never bothered to DA. They treat us the same, however. If we can offer any advice, let us know.
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So an elder came by and asked me if I have found another Church
by bluesapphire invery nice brother came by who comes about every 6 months or so.
i really like this guy and knew ahead of time that the next time he came over i was going to be friendly to him.
he came by during a storm and was obviously cold.
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willyloman
This is strange behavior, even for a JW elder. Every six months? Does he have some ulterior motive? Or is his ego so huge he thinks he can wear you down over time? Almost no elder I ever knew (including me) would come back again and again after hearing you state your position so clearly. This guy has more than enough "ammunition" to recommend JC proceedings against you. And yet he has compartmentalized you into a unique category all his own.
Weird.
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Yet Another Generation: What Have JW's EVER Got Right? (a Public Service Announcement)
by AllTimeJeff inin the april 15, 2010 wt, the new governing body of jw's have once again changed their ever problematic teaching regarding the "generation" that saw the sign jesus spoke of mt: 24:32-34.
(note, all references to "generation" in this article are in reference to this passage in mt 24).
the reason that this shows why the governing body is a fraud is very simple.
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willyloman
If I were still a dub, this latest "light" would be incredibly embarrassing.
The further away I get the happier I am that I left.
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Friend going to elders soon for a spankin' Any current / ex elders here?
by JerkhovahsWitless ini have a jw friend who's done somethings with his jw girlfriend in the porneia category.
not intercourse though.. he wants to go to the elders and confess.
i'm not sure of his reasons why, i mean he sees the bs of the cult.
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willyloman
An ex-elder told me that his daughter once came to him and said she had done the nasty with her BF and, good elder that he was, he recommended she go see the elders in her congo and come clean. He told me it turned out to be the worst advice he'd ever given anyone and he deeply regretted it to this day. She was humiliated and bore the scars for a long time. He said that he now realized it was no one else's business and he wishes he had told his daughter to work it out privately and move forward. I suggested he tell his daughter how his thinking had changed and apologize, which he did.
Later, he told me she appreciated his mea culpa. But she also told him she felt she had no choice about going to the elders because... you guessed it!... the BF had told her he was going to talk to the elders in his congo (in another city) and they'd report back to her elder body. So she was pressured into humiliating herself and no advice the father had given would have changed the circumstances.
That's how awful this religion is in terms of its impact on people's lives.
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"Old School" Elders
by xelder inin the last few years that i served as an elder, and as i was discovering what the wts really was, the term "old school" would be used and it began to bother me more and more.
it was usually used to praise a person with a mean, unwaivering, dogmatism to an obselete policy.
a couple of times i would ask the person what he meant by the term.
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willyloman
Old School = Pharasee
Progressive = Compassionate and wishing for change
The latter end up on this forum telling their exit stories or else they hunker down at the KH and fly under the radar, busying themselves with business or family affairs and trying not to let "the truth" get in the way of their lives.
The "old school" boys are despised by the progressives, who learn fairly quickly that all efforts at reform are futile. Once it becomes clear that the "problems" are not specific to one congregation but are systemic, it's crisis of conscience time for a "progressive" elder. This is true of folks at every level of membership but elders get to see the seamy underside of the organization and some see the futility sooner than the rank and file.
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What Are You Reading?
by zoiks inok, here's my current list:.
i just finished the greatest show on earth by richard dawkins, and am almost finished crisis of conscience by...some guy.. currently in hand, i have:.
the power of myth, joseph campbell and bill moyers.
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willyloman
I see two references here to Cormac McCarthy books: The Road and No Country for Old Men. Both are terrific reads and much better than the movies they spawned. McCarthy's early stuff, however, is almost unreadable, based on my futile attempts to read two of his older works.
The best book I've read in a while is U is for Undertow, the latest in the alphabet mystery series by Sue Grafton. I thought is was her best book of the series, at least since J.
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willyloman
I once heard a simple explanation of the difference. It makes sense to me: Religion divides, spirituality unites.
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Honesty in Field Service Reports....This week's CBS topic (among others)
by Open mind inthis week's congregation "bible" study.
the drone running the show asked an auxiliary question (tm):.
"so, what could be some of the consequences if people weren't honest in reporting their field service?".
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willyloman
Way back when I was a fledgling dub, I remember an elder counseling us at the meeting for service about keeping accurate time. One of the things he cautioned against was being too fanatical (my word, not his) about it. He used the illustration of two publishers working together all morning, then one counting their time as one hour while the other recorded two.
The first, he said, was subtracting all the time between doors, the 10 minutes when they stopped for gas, and the 15 minutes they stopped for coffee, while the other counted time from when they got to the first door to when they left the last door. He said it wasn't necessary to discount the time by a few minutes here, a few minutes there, as long as that was directly related to the FS activity.
I was later to learn that he failed to mention the "third" publisher, the one that counted time from the moment he left his house to the time he got home; he got three hours that day!