Posts by mizpah

18

Well, the experience is over

by HuskerMike in

met the jw's today, a 20 year old boy and his mother.

he was refreshing, she was not.

as soon as the conversation started to go to the trinity, she stopped the discussion and simply asked if we were "comfortable" in believing what we do.

Thanks for the reminders of how the Watchtower tried to "wiggle out" of its responsibility in this whole matter. For anyone who was in the organization at the time, we know how the Society was pushing the date of 1975 and how Jehovah's Witnesses reacted from the late 1960s to the disappointment in the mid 70s.

We had district and circuit overseers give talks on the "emergency" because of the "short time remaining." One likened the time left to Joshua's last march around Jericho. Another said that we no longer counted time in years, but now we counted time in "months, weeks and days."

What I find disturbing, though, is the number of "old timers" who experienced all of this and yet deny that the Watchtower did this. I guess they must have "organizational amnesia."

55

Heaven

by ClassAvenger in

i was talking with a jw friend and he said that they believed they would live here on earth forever.

he told me a verse in psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth.

" for those who believe in heaven, what does this verse mean?

mizpah

Elderwho:

I agree. That is the conclusion that I have reached, too. Interestingly, Russell taught that the "great crowd" was a secondary heavenly group. Rutherford is the one that changed it and linked it to the "other sheep." Under his tenure, a two class system was established. And the majority of Christians in the congregations were denied to partake of the "body and blood" of Christ at the Memorial.

Most commentators note that the "other sheep" were probably the Gentile believers that joined their Jewish brethren in the Christian congregation. It makes sense. Jesus directed his apostles to preach only to the Jews and Jewish converts. But after his resurrection, the gospel was spread to all mankind. The "other sheep" joined the fold of the Jewish believers to become "one flock" under Christ.

55

Heaven

by ClassAvenger in

i was talking with a jw friend and he said that they believed they would live here on earth forever.

he told me a verse in psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth.

" for those who believe in heaven, what does this verse mean?

mizpah

Classavenger:

As I recall, in the old literature the Watchtower applied the words "the meek shall inherit the earth" to the heavenly annointed class. The reasoning was that as the annointed become kings and priests along side Christ, they "inherit" the earth as part of their rule. Knowing this was the official view, I was always uncomfortable to use this scripture at the door to try to "prove" that God promised an earthly hope to mankind.

Since leaving the organization, I have pondered about the "one hope" that Christians have regarding the future. It seems evident that the hope that early Christians entertained was heavenly. Yet, there is a strong indication that God's purpose would include the restoration of earth with humans on it. What are some of your thoughts on this?

14

J.R. Brown: Quotes, Contradictions, Lies, Deceptions, Theocratic Warfare!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

(quotes from the watchtower, october 1st, 1951 issue, pages 596-598).

" (quote from the watchtower, january 15th 1983 issue, page 22).

" (quotes from the official child abuse policy statement on the official watchtower media website at http://www.jw-media.org).

mizpah

Isn't it odd that in all the quotations one does not find..."we are so sorry this has occurred, we will make sure that it doesn't happen again, we will make restitution for the damages done and we ask for forgiveness from God and the victims." And yet, this is what we would expect from a Christian organization instead of the legal jargon which tries to deny responsiblity and obfuscate the issues.

82

What If Jehovah's Witnesses Are Right?

by shamus in

the "what if" thing comes to mind... no matter how much i strongly believe that they are not, what if armageddon happened tomorrow and they were correct?

would you have any sorrow for being wrong???.

i, personally would not.

mizpah

For anyone who would seriously consider the question it would indicate an ambivalence that needs to be addressed. For anyone in this position, I would once again recommend Franz's Crisis of Conscience, In Search of Christian Freedom and Penton's Apocalypse Delayed. After reading these publication, all doubts should be removed.

27

Let Us Create A True Religion...

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

the wts feels that they are the true religion because they place tons of literature based on their own interpretations and because they show true christian love for one another.

this forum is testimony to the validity of their cause so i won't bother to repeat the obvious.

but if a true religion were to exist, i belive it shoud be based on the following:

mizpah

Noumenon:

I guess what I have in mind that some in the 7 Churches did hold to beliefs or teachings that were contrary to Christianity. For example, in Pergamum: "You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam..." that led to idolatry and sexual immorality....."Likewise you also have those who hold to the teachings of the Nicolaitans." In Thyatira, it is said: "You tolerate that woman Jezebel who calls her self a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants...." etc... These were not minor infractions. These endangered the entire church. If this was the state of the churches in John's time, I think they become a very good picture or symbol of the state of all churches today that claim to be "Christian." Churches who profess Christianity come under the authority of Christ. And by doing so, they eventually come under his scrutiny and judgement.

While I think that Jehovah's Witnesses probably do have "the truth" on doctrines like trinity, soul and hell, I think their major mistake is substituting their organization for Christ. For example, the organization teaches that salvation can only come through itself. (Savior?) It implies that people are redeemed by their ministerial works. (Redeemer?) It criticizes and judges all others outside the organization. (Judge?) These roles are Christ's alone. This, in my opinion, is a major error made by the Watchtower Society.

It has only been in recent publications, I understand, that the Society has begun to emphasize the importance of Christ. And this could be a reaction to the criticisms of others who noted the secondary postion that the Society relegated him throughout the years. I remember one young JW woman who said "all the churches talk about is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus." I remember how shocked I was to hear this. I always thought the "gospel" was all about Jesus!

So, I would never use Jehovah's Witnesses as a measuring stick to guage other religons. It was once said "a little truth is a dangerous thing." Yes, I do believe they have "a little truth." But just consider how they have used it to abuse other Christians. And if Christians are found in the other church systems, think of the implication of Jesus' words: "...as you have done it to one of these least ones, you have done it to me."

16

Hemopure

by Lee Elder in

biopure receives fda response to hemopure(r) marketing application .

cambridge, mass., aug. 1 /prnewswire-firstcall/ -- biopure corporation (nasdaq:.

bpur) announced today that the u.s. food and drug administration (fda) has.

mizpah

Why is it I get a vision of a bunch of Talmudic scholars splitting hairs over issues that really are never addressed in Scripture?

1

Bethany's battle rages a year after her death

by qwerty in

parents fight for custody of little sister

kerry williamson

calgary herald

mizpah

What a tragic story this has been. The mother was trying to "save" her child through her religious faith that prevents the blood transfusions that may have saved her life. The father was trying to save his daughter by giving permission for blood in spite of his daughter's protestations. In spite of all the noble efforts the girls dies.

Our hearts should go out to both parents. Both did what they thought was best for their daughter. And both lost her in death. Both are feeling the pain and sorrow of this loss.

May God comfort them both.

1

Agenda in case of child abuse?

by Henriksen in

i have recived a copy of a letter from the danish branch office to all body of elders, dated may 15, 2003 in which there are given instructions how to act in case of an accusation of child abuse.. the danish banch office claims the the watchtower society began working on this instruction for about 10 years ago.

have someone heard about these instructions before?.

soren henriksen

mizpah

No, I've not heard anything about this. But I'm not surprised that the Watchtower Society would do this. It has made a concerted effort in the last year to go back to older articles in the Watchtower and Awake that dealt with abuse to try to demonstrate their policy against abuse was "long standing." It seems to be the strategy the Watchtower lawyers are now using in the courts.

However, "actions speak louder than words." The Watchtower Society is still disfellowshipping victims of abuse and their suppporters. While spending a lot of money for lawyers, nothing has been spent to help the victims. In a number of cases, the perpetrators remain in "good standing" in the congregations. And the victims are often re-victimized in the court systems.

It's apparent that the Watchtower Society is more interested in preserving itself and its financial assets.

22

UN/NGO issue quiz: How would you answer this JW apologist's comments?

by reporter in

mizpah

If Jehovah's Witnesses aren't allowed to attend a funeral or marriage in a church that the Watchtower Society says is "Babylon the Great" ... what gives it the right to join and to participate in a NGO of the United Nations, the "image of the Beast?" Perhaps, Jehovah's Witnesses should disfellowship the Watchtower Society for "conduct unbecoming a Chrisitan."