Posts by mizpah

51

Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

by garybuss in

prefatory note .

(to watch tower reprints wtb&ts 1919) .

the watch tower is unique among all the publications in the world.

mizpah

run don't walk:

According to Penton's Apocalypse Delayed, Russell had already formulated the idea of Christ's invisible presence in the heavens before meeting Barbour. Not only had he been influenced by the writings of Storrs and Stetson, but also by people like Joseph Seiss, a Lutheran pastor and editor of Prophetic Times. What Russell accepted from Barbour upon their meeting in 1876 was the prophetic "time line" that set 1874 as Christ's invisible coming. It fit nicely into Russell's prophetic chronology. Russell gave Barbour financial support and both published Three Worlds and the Harvest of this World. While Russell was heavily influenced by his association with Second Adventists, I have never read anything about him being influenced by the Seventhday Adventists. Garybus: Do you have any more information that would confirm this?

Rutherford, on the other hand, probably saw the error of Russell's calculations. Since many of the "Bible Students" were disappointed in the failure of Russell's predictions (and many left the organization at the time) Rutherford took the basic teachings of Russell (invisible "parousia") but placed them upon a different time sequence. Instead of 1914 being the final "end" he made it the date of Christ's coming in the heavens and the "beginning of the end." Armageddon was to be a near future event. Focus was taken away from Russell's failure by Rutherford's emphasis that the "ancient worthies" were to be resurrected on earth around 1925.

24

Could Disfellowshipping Finish Off the Watchtower?

by metatron in

let's do some speculative thinking about the watchtower's future!.

suppose some holes are legally poked thru the watchtower's actions on disfellowshipping,.

whether in the us or other countries.

mizpah

waiting:

As I recall, "marking" a person was another blunder of the Watchtower Society. As usual, when the Watchtower article addressed this subject Jehovah's Witnesses went "overboard" in its application. I remember people going up to others telling them that they were being marked for some perceived infraction. It started to create a lot of problems in the congregations since it was dividing "brother against brother." I think the Watchtower eventually addressed this problem by making adjustments in the application of scripture.

Over the years, the Watchtower got itself into a number of problems because of articles that were published. Remember the articles on "pornea" and sexual practices of married couples? The Watchtower Society was deluged with mail and phone calls. It finally decided to get out of the sexual counselling business and out of people's bedrooms and leave it up to the "consciences of individuals."

7

Happy Martin Luther Day!

by Valis in

not king, but martin luther..happy halloween everyone...knock knock ...or pound pound...trick or treat or perhaps 95 thesis if you prefer?

the protestant reformation of a bag of burning dog poop on your front door?.

sincerely,.

mizpah

Valis:

Yes, I am anxious to see the new movie about Martin Luther, too. Currently, I'm reading about the Reformers. Like Luther, others (Zwingli and Calvin) turned around and persecuted and killed other Protestants who disagreed with their teachings. The Anabaptists were particular targets of these men.

It reminds one of the Watchtower organization that encourages new people to question their religion. But once one becomes a Jehovah's Witness he is disfellowshipped and shunned if he expresses doubts or questions any doctrines of the Watchtower Society, particularly the one about the "faithful and discreet slave."

9

Jesus was the prodigal son

by cellomould in

.

perhaps this will not be printed in the wt anytime soon, but think about it.. look at the parallels between the behavior of the brother in the parable and the behavior of jesus' real siblings.. jesus was accused of associating with 'tax collectors and sinners'.. he once saved a woman from being stoned by an angry mob for 'adultery'.. he was also criticized for allowing a woman, probably of 'ill repute', to pour expensive oil over him and cry at his feet.. jesus was the prodigal son.... .

cell

mizpah

Cello:

I think saying Jesus was the "prodigal son" is stretching the point a little. The prodigal son took the father's inheritance and squandered it. Jesus did not. The son lived a profligate life until poverty and misery drove him back to his father. Jesus never did. The account of Jesus and the adulteress is probably not part of the original gospel, but a later addition.

It's also a "stretch" to call Jesus a "feminist." As a good Jew he would have obeyed the Jewish laws and traditions which divided the responsibilities of men and women into roles which are unacceptable by the modern "feminists" of today.

7

Happy Martin Luther Day!

by Valis in

not king, but martin luther..happy halloween everyone...knock knock ...or pound pound...trick or treat or perhaps 95 thesis if you prefer?

the protestant reformation of a bag of burning dog poop on your front door?.

sincerely,.

mizpah

Martin Luther was one of the great Reformers. But he had his dark side too. He rebelled against the Catholic hierarchy because of its corruption and intolerance. But then he aligned himself with the German princes and established his own religious kingdom. He really did prove to be the "bag of dog poop" that the pope stepped on.

Like many Europeans of his day, he was an extreme anti-semite. And when the peasants rose up to throw off the burdensome yoke of their rulers inspired by Luther's position against the church, Luther was quick to denounce and to condemn them in the strongest terms of the day. Luther rejoiced when the Peasants Revolt failed and many of them slaughtered.

He was a complex man with a good and bad nature. But this was true of the other Reformers too.

There has always been the question of whether he actually did nail the 95 Theses on the door of the Wittenburg church.

3

A Snub Really Is Like Kick in the Gut

by Xandria in

washington (reuters) - the feeling is familiar to anyone who has been passed over in picking teams or snubbed at a party -- a sickening, almost painful feeling in the stomach.

well, it turns out that "kicked in the gut" feeling is real, u.s. scientists said on thursday.

brain imaging studies show that a social snub affects the brain precisely the way visceral pain does.

mizpah

The awkardness and embarrassment of being snubbed by Jehovah's Witnesses seem to fall more heavily on them than the XJW. Many of us have come face to face with members of our congregation in a store or other public place. It's usually the JW who doesn't know quite how to act or react. In some cases, when they see a disfellowshipped person coming, they'll turn around and walk in the other direction. Or the JW may cast down his eyes or look in another direction to avoid eye contact.

I would hope this indicates that somewhere down deep in a person's heart he is aware that this is not proper Christian conduct. But in any case, it is JWs that carry the burden of their own rules.

24

Could Disfellowshipping Finish Off the Watchtower?

by metatron in

let's do some speculative thinking about the watchtower's future!.

suppose some holes are legally poked thru the watchtower's actions on disfellowshipping,.

whether in the us or other countries.

mizpah

SFJ:

In a way, religious organizations are a private entity. Recently, the court said that the Boy Scouts could ban gay members from their organization because it recognized that a "private organization" can set its own rules of membership. The same legal principle would probably apply to religous groups as well. So, I doubt the courts could enforce such a rule.

But don't doubt the influence that the "apostates" have already had on the Watchtower organization. Because of them, the Watchtower has been on the defensive in the last few years. Unlike years ago, the ones leaving the organization today are very vocal and aggressive in condemning the unchristian conduct of the Watchtower Society. Thanks to them the public has become aware of the many problems that beset Jehovah's Witnesses today.

24

What does it take to become a Circut Overseer?

by frankiespeakin in

what does it take to become a circuit overseer?.

the watchtower bible track society relies very heavily upon these men to make sure that they have a tight grip on each congregation.. the structure for control that the wt.

has in place needs it's eyes and ears to find out whether or not a congregation is following all the rules that the wt has laid out for it.

mizpah

Concerned mama:

The Watchtower Society breaks every country into sections: zones, districts and circuits. A number of congregations comprised a "circuit" over which the "circuit overseer" had oversight. He usually would visit a congregation about twice a year. Sometimes a congregation would be assigned a "host congregation" for an assembly. Then, a special visit would be made by the circuit overseer sometimes to be joined by the "district overseer." It was suppose to be considered a rare "privilege."

When the Watchtower Society was experimenting with the "elder arrangement" it made some tactical mistakes such as the one previously mentioned. Another one was the idea to rotate the positions of the elders annually in the congregations giving each an opportunity to be "congregation overseer." This turned out to be another disaster. Evidently, the "spirit led" arrangement had a lot to be desired...haha.

24

What does it take to become a Circut Overseer?

by frankiespeakin in

what does it take to become a circuit overseer?.

the watchtower bible track society relies very heavily upon these men to make sure that they have a tight grip on each congregation.. the structure for control that the wt.

has in place needs it's eyes and ears to find out whether or not a congregation is following all the rules that the wt has laid out for it.

mizpah

Over the years, I have known good and bad COs. A few were really dedicated men who were working hard to help their "brothers." But the majority of them were on a "power trip." They were arrogant and demanding.

Does anyone remember when the Watchtower came out and said that COs were only "equals" to the other elders in the congregations? Some of the elders began to treat the COs as almost inferiors. They no longer carried the aura of being "special representatives of the Watchtower Society." Evidently, the Society got wind of this and published a later article that corrected this view. COs regained their positions as "special" and won back the fear of the members in the congregation. It was another case of Watchtower blunders that backfired.

51

Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

by garybuss in

prefatory note .

(to watch tower reprints wtb&ts 1919) .

the watch tower is unique among all the publications in the world.

mizpah

run don't walk:

Are you confusing N.H. Barbour, a Second Adventist, with the SDA church? Russell accepted Barbour's date system "lock, stock and barrel." It seemed to fit his preconceived ideas with regard to Christ's second coming. Later, Russell and Barbour had a falling out over the ransom doctrine.

After the failure of William Miller's prediction that the end would come in 1843/44, a number of "Adventist" groups were formed including the Seventhday Adventists. But many of these still held to Miller's teaching but dismissed their disappointment as expecting the "wrong event at the right time." Men like Barbour, Stetson and Storrs were Second Adventists and had a great influence over young Russell. However, I think the SDAs still hold to Miller's date as the time Christ was "tarrying in the heavens" before visibly coming to earth. I wasn't aware that any SDAs taught that Christ came in 1874. (But, of course, I could be wrong.)