Here's the thread to Amazing's story - it is the first of two parts - the link to the second part is at the bottom of the thread. Before you do anything, I would read this - it is worth it.
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm
growedup
imallgrowedup
JoinedPosts by imallgrowedup
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25
Please tell me your story of.....
by Doubtfully Yours indid anyone here just broke the news to the unsuspecting spouse/so that they just were not going to be a jw anymore?.
please tell me about the reactions and the aftermath.
did it break the relationship, or did it survive?
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14
Easy targets, who are they?
by JH inwho would you say would be the "easier targets", when jw's knock at their door?
do you think that there are any particular people who would be more vulnerable to fall into the jw trap?
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imallgrowedup
People who are in or coming out of any situation where they feel vulnerable and a need to fill that emptiness with something that offers hope for a better future. In fact, IMHO, anyone who is vulnerable can be open to all kinds of things they normally wouldn't be - not just to the JW's.
growedup
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22
Catholic church filing bankruptcy
by TweetieBird inhttp://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/a/archdiocese_bankruptcy?site=nytro§ion=home
jul 6, 2:25 pm edt
portland archdiocese filing chapter 11
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imallgrowedup
Yeru -
It would seem that is all it would take, however, I have a feeling it is not that easy. And the reason I say that is because letters come from the WT all the time directing elders to do certain things a certain way. But, from what I can tell, the decisions contained therein are rarely made by one individual, and the letters themselves are generally not signed by one particular person. This makes it difficult to determine exactly "who" to point the finger at.
My other thought is that "in the real world", generally an entire "management team" or "board of directors" is held responsible for the actions taken in the name of the company/corporation. There are times when there are scapegoats, but generally, at the very least - the highest ranking official takes the most heat - along with several members of the governing board. So, that leads us to ask: Who runs the place and makes these decisions? The Vatican themselves have admitted to moving pedophiles around. So, to me - I see the highest ranking people responsible - especially because they were the only ones who had the power to produce a different outcome - i.e. removing pedophilic priests from the priesthood altogether. (Same goes for the WT, I might add!)
As I've already said, Yeru, it is hard to weigh the very real grievances of those who have been wronged against the good the Catholic church does. And I acknowledge the good they do - especially when contrasted with the WT! But do we treat their transgressions differently because of something good they do that is unrelated to those transgressions? To put it another way - do we treat the leaders of Enron who financially screwed thousands of people differently because they produced energy that the world desperately needed? I say, "no". And I say the same applies to the Catholic church. I know - there is a difference between the charity of the Catholic church and the for-profit product Enron produced - but if we allow the Catholic church to get off easier than Ken Lay and associates, are we supplying an outlet (aka: loophole) for other entities or companies to get away with the same types of things? (i.e. Just give generously to charity and you can get away with anything if it ever makes it to the judicial system.)
Tough questions, Yeru. And I'm glad I'm not the one having to come up with the answers!
growedup
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22
Catholic church filing bankruptcy
by TweetieBird inhttp://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/a/archdiocese_bankruptcy?site=nytro§ion=home
jul 6, 2:25 pm edt
portland archdiocese filing chapter 11
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imallgrowedup
Yeru,
You bring up some very good questions. And honestly, I don't have answers. I can see the "good" in the Catholic church as far as what they do for the poor, etc. But then I also look at the WT who has also directed the protection of pedophiles, and my stomach turns over. These are tough questions - do we mete out justice for both entities evenly since they have both committed the same crime, or do we balance it out based upon the "good" they do, as well? After all, with one entity, innocent people who rely upon the charity of the church could potentially be affected, too.
Again, Yeru, I'm not sure how to answer these very tough questions. In fact, they are so tough, I wouldn't want to be sitting on a jury which has to make decisions which will cause division no matter what they come up with.
*sighs heavily*
growedup
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34
who owns Kingdom Halls?
by Dogpatch inhas there been any change in who owns the kingdom halls?.
last i knew it was the watchtower who owned them all, but the pubs had to pay the rent and mortgage.
are any or all of the halls in the names of local elders?
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imallgrowedup
Devon -
I couldn't get the link to work.
In answer to your question about next of kin, the KH's are owned by corporations - which don't direct rights of survivorship to family members - unless specified in the corporation filings. And in this case, I would be shocked if that is the case - most likely, the corporation itself has rights of survivorship. So, if say, a Director dies, whether someone else from the congregation is named in their place or not, the corporation would still own the KH.
I can't remember which state you are in, but you can check your Secretary of State's website for the corporate filing to find out who the most current Directors, et al are. The deeds themselves are not necessarily updated as to who controls the corporation - as long as the deed specifies just the name of the corporation. So, in order to know who they are, you would need to find the latest Corporate filing with the Sec of State. If they haven't updated the filing since the death of this elder, then the corporation (most likely) would still own the building, but with only two officers instead of three. If they all died at the same time in a trainwreck, the provisions as set forth in the Corporate Filings would determine ownership. And I would betcha that that is when the WT would then step in - at least until a new board of directors could be elected.
Hope that helps!
growedup
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15
Green Thumb Friends. Grass question... (Lawn not "weed")
by Confucious inhey guys, .
just spent a small fortune because my front lawn got burnt up.
had to buy new sod.
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imallgrowedup
Confucious -
Congrats on the new house!
As far as seeding a new lawn goes, it is hard to do this time of year because most grass thrives in cooler weather. In fact, the ideal time for planting grass is in the autumn. Depending on where you live and the type of grass you are trying to grow, you may need to wait until September to re-seed. But when you do, be sure to remove the "thatch" first - which is the dead grass, and "score" the ground. This can be done with an ordinary garden rake, as grass seed does not need deep grooves in order to germinate. However, what it does need is contact with the soil - hence the need to remove the thatch. The other thing the seeds need is lots and lots of water. They need to be always moist in order to sprout. Again, another reason why the fall is a good time to plant, because evaporation is not such a big factor.
The bad news is that you have needed to start over! But the good news is that if you aren't having any luck with the new patches of lawn, autumn is just around the corner!
Good luck to you!
growedup
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22
Catholic church filing bankruptcy
by TweetieBird inhttp://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/a/archdiocese_bankruptcy?site=nytro§ion=home
jul 6, 2:25 pm edt
portland archdiocese filing chapter 11
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imallgrowedup
Yeru -
If the Vatican ever owned the church building or land, and/or held the mortgage for said church, then they can be named in the suit under certain provisions of US law.
fwiw - when a judgment is rendered in the US, all assets are attachable - not just cash assets - after a certain "homestead value" has been surpassed. The homestead amounts are as low as $0, as in the State of Delaware, and as high as $125,000 in the State of Nevada. In the State of Oregon, the homestead exemption is $15,000, which doesn't allow them much. After that, nothing is protected. So the valuable art pieces can, at least under US law, be sold or flat out confiscated to pay the judgment.
As far as people bringing about frivolous lawsuits, I am kinda of surprised you said that! These people may never have been abused if the Catholic church - under the direction of the Vatican - did not move priests who were reported as abusers to other churches where they could abuse again. I don't know the particulars of these cases - but I do know that anyone who blames the child for the abuse - as this guy has done - is a sick man - and the victims, IMHO, deserve compensation for the crimes committed against them. Since the Vatican itself readily admits to moving these priests around, then they are just as guilty as the perpetrator/s in my book.
I'm not looking to start a flame war with ya. I just thought you'd want to know the particulars of the law as I understand it.
growedup
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22
Catholic church filing bankruptcy
by TweetieBird inhttp://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/a/archdiocese_bankruptcy?site=nytro§ion=home
jul 6, 2:25 pm edt
portland archdiocese filing chapter 11
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imallgrowedup
In a deposition taken before his death, Grammond said, "I'd say these children abused me. They'd dive in my lap to get sexual excitement."
UNFREAKING BELIEVABLE!!!!!!
Oh! This just pisses me off!!!!!
As to filing bankruptcy, that is a serious crock! The Portland archdiocese, or whatever they are called, is still a part of the Vatican - and it has been shown over and over again that the Vatican allowed these priests to abuse. So - they are just sending up a smoke screen. The Vatican is one of the richest entities in the world, and I hope those victims get every penny they are seeking - especially in the face of comments such as the one highlighted above!
It's hard to decide which is worse - the Catholic Church or the WT? Why waste my time debating it? They're both equally abhorrent!
My .02,
growedup
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Why the Society May Worry About "Internal Statistics"
by metatron inso, rumors have emerged that the watchtower society is worried about elders in europe.
offering "internal statistics" about the organization?.
you might wonder why this seems so important to them.. i think i may be able to offer a reason for their sudden concern - money!.
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imallgrowedup
IMHO, everything they do boils down to money. Everything!
growedup
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34
who owns Kingdom Halls?
by Dogpatch inhas there been any change in who owns the kingdom halls?.
last i knew it was the watchtower who owned them all, but the pubs had to pay the rent and mortgage.
are any or all of the halls in the names of local elders?
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imallgrowedup
Randy,
This is exactly what I am working on for Greg Love right now - ownership of KH's and the chain of title. As was said already here, most KH's are owned by a corporation which is formed by the KH and whose Directors, et al come from the congregation itself. Some of the "double congs" which may have as many as five or six congregations attending, will have one particular congregation which owns the whole thing kit and kaboodle. I've yet to run across a KH which I've personally researched which is currently owned by the WT itself, but I know they exist, because I've brought them up in my data bases.
I'm sending you a pm with more info - please check for it and get back with me if you need more info.
growedup