It's called "compartmentalization," and it is a behavior that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses encourage and reward. It helps create solidarity within the ranks by inducing an "us-against-them" attitude. Religious cults and political ideologies are best known for this trait.
talesin
JoinedPosts by talesin
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33
whats so bad about believing people go to heaven?
by sowhatnow init occurred to me today, that so often, my mother will make the comment that .
"those false religions teach that everyone is going to heaven when they die, oh sure, .
all you have to do is be a good person, and off you go to heaven.
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talesin
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46
Books I read when I deprogrammed
by OrphanCrow inblondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.
canadian exjws from calagary.
an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.
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talesin
This thread was made to recommend books. It would be nice to stay on topic, and continue any controversy and / or drama on the other thread. -
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Books I read when I deprogrammed
by OrphanCrow inblondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.
canadian exjws from calagary.
an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.
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talesin
Oh yes, OC, the first book! I think I got disinterested and skimmed, because I already had the second one to read. And of course, was itching to read the 'truth', after he discovered it.
Very cool that you got to talk to him and received a letter! There are some youtube interviews of him, and he's on facebook as well. He doesn't post much, but the occasional information about his work, or a comment on current matters.
He was on the path to the "Inner Circle", I think,and as you said, could not believe after he learned TTATT. A courageous person, one who has both a healthy ego and humility. Someone to look up to. Indeed. : )
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Books I read when I deprogrammed
by OrphanCrow inblondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.
canadian exjws from calagary.
an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.
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talesin
I believe that the progressive education I received at my junior high school started me on the path. Books included Burgess' A Clockwork Orange and Orwell's Animal Farm and 1984, as well as Lord of the Flies. Literature had a big influence on me, as books were my friends, growing up. Dickens, especially, and some poets and philosophers helped to shape my belief system to one of logic rather than the religious fervor of my maternal unit.
In the early 90s, I had to take off from working 70 hours a week, and spent a lot of recovery time in the library. Dr. Penton's earlier book had the greatest influence on me. The fact that he was brought up in a family similar to mine, and had achieved his education (I was on that path, though in my 30s), helped to make his writings more credible to me. He was both an exJW (I knew NONE!) and an intellectual with much credit in academia. And yes, he is a kind and I consider, great man.
Other books on cults, anthologies by cult researchers, all listed Jehovah's Witnesses. That was encouraging as well, and I learned a lot about cults in general, and how the academic world of cult researchers saw the JWS.
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inquiring mind has 3 questions
by OutsiderLookingIn injust a few questions from a newbie.
answer one or as many as you want.
1. why cleaners?
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talesin
Good point, DJS, and when you combine shunning with no education, the question "where would I go?" creates even more anxiety. In my experience, many JWS are involved in family or other collaborative businesses (construction & cleaning being the two big ones around here). With little or no real world experience, and young mouths to feed, it could be quite frightening. -
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Did you KNOW Ray and Cynthia or the legal copyright holder? Only a few maybe had limited contact.
by blondie ini have known all of them over the last 15 years, talked at length with them, and knew what their wishes were, the copyright holder and spouse spent even more time with them socially and helping them set up their arrangements for when ray and cynthia passed.
i don't believe that anyone else on this board or others was a confidant.
there is no need to prove it to anyone but the copyright office which is satisfied with this.
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talesin
There's one in my library. Many universities have it as well (one here has it). And many unis and church libraries are happy to arrange special loans, or you can visit and read there (if you consider the book is THAT vital). That was my first thought, actually - the library is where (pre WWW, I did my research.
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I will also say this - most of the information vital to anyone's learning TTATT, is on this forum, or discussed in other places. And yes, by bona fide scholars in the field, on this very DB.
Perhaps a thread with links to JWN discussions of salient points (that use appropriate quotes from the book, in accordance with the laws, and in line with the Franz' wishes) would be a good idea?
To all lurkers, and those seeking to learn about this, there are many excellent threads. Members to check for awesome essays and discussions are Amazing (yup,he was, totally amazing), Farkel (enfant terrible and big ole softie), Onacruse (deep thinker), Hillary_Step (respect) and many others.
*This* is what we do - we find solutions to help people learn about and escape this cult. We don't have to be formally organized, to co-operate on an important issue. It's all about support and disseminating facts.
We should support the caretakers of this man who gave up more than we know, Ray Franz, and his wife, Cynthia, and the woman who was given the task of protecting his legacy.
Timeline of Events since copyright changed hands:
As I explained on a previous thread - Mrs. Franz died late December, 2013. That's 2 years, or 24 months ago. It took 18 months to effect the Transfer of Copyright - there is a link to the US Gov't site which states that today, the waiting period is about 14 months. Let's say at least 3 months for probate court - and if there was no will,.as someone has intimated, maybe even 6 months to get things straightened out.
18 months + 3 months = 21 months. So, that leaves 3 months lag - let's get REAL. So, in the last several months, CofC could have been put online, as an E-Book. But no, Mr. John Cedars aka Lloyd Evans decides it's been just too long, and he has to start selling books. Now, there is a mess. People are arguing, creating needless drama over a nonissue. (see above, the facts are here, and some wonderful teachers - the book can be read anytime)
Also, we discussed the costs of translation - this needs to be done, and soon. That, too, is one of the considerations that is taking time. No one is going to retire on the 'profits' from this book.
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Give the custodian a break (do you 'get' the timeline now?), and realize how discouraging it must be for HER to know all this is going on.
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Remember, your world is no longer black and white. Judgment calls and opinions are expected to be based on facts and real-world expectations. 1. We don't 'need' the book - that is claptrap, it's all here. 2. Use this as a learning experience, to get the facts, and avoid drama queens. xx
PS. Blondie, tks for setting a few things straight. You're the best. : )
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What I thought CLAM meant , can you think of anymore ?
by smiddy infor a while there i was confused as to what clam stood for .. ideas that crossed my mind .
christ left a ministry , or meeting .
children`s lives are mine .....( pedo`s in the borg ).
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talesin
Cults
Lobotomize
All
Members.
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Wear were you in the "Pecking order" in the congro??
by karter inwe were right down with the very lowest.. father never a jw we had a po with little mans syndrome and love to pick on sisters that had no husband to stand up for them,he picked on my mother only to find out he picked on the wrong person,she came from a hard up bringing and didn't take any s###t from anyone particularly this little bully and we were very poor...how low can you get!.
karter..
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talesin
Sabin, your comment. I had to laugh, because that is who I am NOW. As a JW, I was a complete carpet.
And it is true that some people don't like opinionated women. So be it. Unfortunate, but oh well! :P
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Wear were you in the "Pecking order" in the congro??
by karter inwe were right down with the very lowest.. father never a jw we had a po with little mans syndrome and love to pick on sisters that had no husband to stand up for them,he picked on my mother only to find out he picked on the wrong person,she came from a hard up bringing and didn't take any s###t from anyone particularly this little bully and we were very poor...how low can you get!.
karter..
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talesin
Dad was an auditor as the conventions, need I say much more? 4th generation, and if you were not JW, you were the low-class, poor relations we didn't associate with. Mother is a saint, known back in the day by folks all over who sent her cards when she broke her neck and had a 'miraculous' recovery.
Remembering how deep my family is in. When a certain old elder died, I felt SUCH relief. I was so terrified of him and his brother, who kind of 'ruled' our region for the 50s, 60s, thru to the 80s. But I was in my 40s, and didn't realize until he passed, how much fear his name struck in me. We were poor, but no one ever knew it.
And it wasn't fun to be paraded around as the 'perfect child', on the platform at conventions before school age, teaching a daily scripture to my classmates in primary school. Sick sick cult.
[ EDIT: lots of marriage offers, starting at age 13, YIKES! just had to emphasize the SICK. ]
BOO ! But I'm all right meow. haha xx
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"Even if it isn't the truth, it's still the best way to live"
by Simon inhave you heard that old chestnut?
i have.. typically it's the last resort when you have dismantled a jws beliefs and they have no way of defending them.
they know they are beat so they come out with that one.. its effectively an admission that you are right and they have no argument but they are still going to attend meetings because they like the social club.. what a lame way to defend your faith..
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talesin
Joyzabel - even though I was young, can still remember his voice at Yankee Stadium assembly my family attended. Very fanatical, and in my child's mind, he scared me, rather like Hitler.
And this thread reminded me of another JW-ism that was common: "the worst Jehovah's witness is better than the best worldly person".