Posts by PelicanBeach

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

Phizzy,

"Does Genesis actually identify the evil spirit as Satan ?"

Not directly. Revelation 12:9 does identify the "old serpent" as the great dragon called devil and satan. The word translated "old" according to Thayer's defintions, "1) that has been from the beginning, original, primal, old ancient" Thus, the NWT calls him the "original" serpent.

Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him."

Also Satan's attempts to tempt Jesus mirrored his work in the Garden showing that he repeatedly uses the same tactics.

26

New May WT continuing to beat persecution/organization drum

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

check out the new may wt.

" is nauseating.

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20140515/moving-ahead-jehovahs-organization/.

PelicanBeach

Ever had someone stroke the same spot on your skin over and over and over and over for so long that each stroke begins to hurt?

That's what the Governing Body is doing. The Watchtower is hurting more and more and helping less and less.

This is good, good for the friends.

18

The Memorial campaign: What question from a householder would have made you think?

by Faithful Witness in

i know that soon, the jws in our area will be out in full force, on their hit and run campaign with invitations to the memorial.

.

did you ever encounter a householder during this campaign, that made you stop and think about what you were doing?

PelicanBeach

A good question to ask a Witness during the Memorial season would be:

In ancient Israel all the Jews from the lowly to the rich celebrated the Passover and ate the unleavened the bread; not just the priests (who today are represented by the anointed in the JW religion). Why do JWs, then, only allow the "priests", the anointed, to partake of the emblems?

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

As my husband would say, "There's nothing wrong with stories, especially good ones!"

Thanks for this thread, jgnat.

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

EdenOne,

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible is in agreement with your quote:

"And he moved David - In 1Ch_21:1 the statement is, “and an adversary” (not “Satan,” as the King James Version, since there is no article prefixed, as in Job_1:6; Job_2:1, etc.) “stood up against Israel and moved David,” just as 1Ki_11:14, 1Ki_11:23, 1Ki_11:25 first Hadad, and then Rezon, is said to have been “an adversary” (Satan) to Solomon and to Israel. Hence, our text should be rendered, “For one moved David against them.” We are not told whose advice it was, but some one, who proved himself an enemy to the best interests of David and Israel, urged the king to number the people."

I myself do not have enough information to agree or disagree; I've not made a study of the word satan/resistor in the OT. The NT, on other hand, does treat the word Satan as a spirit individual. In either case it makes little actual difference if Jehovah "caused" or "allowed" a fallen spirit son or a human resister to plant a wrong idea in David's mind. David went forth with it. We are responsible for our own actions no matter who it is that encourages us to go the wrong way.

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

EdenOne,

"So, who did it? Yahweh, or Satan?"

From the Septuagint:

2Sa 24:1 "And the Lord caused his anger to burn forth again in Israel, and Satan stirred up David against them, saying, Go, number Israel and Juda."

In the Bible it is common for God to be either credited or said to be responsible for an event that has occurred because he has allowed it to occur. The Septuagint in this verse is clearer than the Masoretic text which I presume the ASV is using.

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

Confusedandalone,

"And god is so stupid that he just allows this guy Satan to run around doing all sorts of shit for his own personal enjoyment... Wonderful"

You could look at it that way, I suppose. We are free to see things as we wish.

54

No Satan

by jgnat in

that was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that i let fall.. why?.

because i'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it.

i know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it.

PelicanBeach

If angels exist then I believe it's logical to assume that just as there are men and women who are evil that the same could be true of some of God's angelic sons who, like people, have freedom of will.

Just my opinion.

17

Feeling alone...

by bohm in

jw
friends

hey, im bohms girlfriend.

i thought i was feeling better... i quitted the anti depressant a year ago - but now ive started again.

i know the jw isnt the truth- but i feel so very lonely.

PelicanBeach

Bohm's girlfriend,

You've been given excellent advice on this thread and I hope you are able to take advantage of some of the suggestions made. I will share what my experience has been in my own family. After leaving the JWs, and being shunned for it, several of my relatives found a non-judgmental church where they have since made friends and are included in the various church activities. On the other hand, I have a cousin who chose to go back to the JWs get reinstated and get back his family. Another has been able to make friends at work and volunteers for various local organizations making quite a few friends that way as well.

So you see, you have many options and roads to try. I hope you feel better soon, none of us should feel alone for too long...keep posting here there are many good people on this site who have traveled your road.

Pelican

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

PelicanBeach

Excellent material, Cofty. Good points all around.

You're right of course that the blood of animals in ancient Israel had no intrinsic value in and of itself. Its value was what God put on it. The blood of animals symbolized the life that belonged to God himself so when the animal was killed the life (the blood) which belonged to God had to be given back and not taken into the body to sustain it.

From a Christian perspective what you wrote makes perfect sense as well. "He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink." (John 6:54,55) The blood of animals was not intrinsically valuable, it had only symbolic value. The blood of the Son of God, on the other hand, did have intrinsic value. Thus it serves to grant eternal life. By God's spirit it is taken into our hearts and minds and Christ's life, his blood, sustains us spiritually and at some point in the future physically as well.