No Satan

by jgnat 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jgnat

  That was one of the first of the prepackaged beliefs from my church that I let fall.

  Why?

  Because I'd stared evil in the face and lived to tell about it. I know it's textures, it's dark places, the feel, smell, perversion, degradation, corruption of it. Contemplating the motives of my ex-husband, I knew, knew he needed no external influences to be what he was. He's mean, and he hurts people to feel better.

  BTW, I converted to my church after I left my ex. But I've thought long and hard about these lessons over the years, which led me to repudiate the concept of an evil deity.
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  Apognophos

  Yes, it's interesting that Satan is still very real for Witnesses, and they see at least as much evidence of demonic activity as of angelic activity. Even though they acknowledge that there are two other causes for bad things that happen — chance, and human imperfection — they believe that the Devil is the third cause, though as I got older I stopped seeing why it was necessary in addition to the first two causes to explain things by saying "the Devil did it."

  And you know what? He really wants people to stop believing he exists so that he can be more effective, so we're playing right into his hands ;-)

  Many of us grew up as JWs imagining that he was watching us all the time. Like Big Brother in 1984 with its omnipresent cameras, he can't read minds, but he can read facial expressions, so you shouldn't let yourself linger for a moment on anything you shouldn't, because he sees where your eyes are looking and he knows when you are interested in something.

  P.S.: Of course anyone who adheres to an inerrantist reading of the Bible has to believe that the Devil exists, so the JWs are no different in this regard than other fundamentalists. "But we're not fundamentalist," cries the Witness. "And... what does inerrantist mean? Well, it doesn't matter, we're not that either."
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  jgnat

  A good part of the OT gets by without the devil. He's inserted in Genesis but even that reads like a plant.
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  EdenOne

  Where, Jgnat?
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  Laika

  "the greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince the world he does not exist" ;p

  When I was young I was told not to pray/speak my fears out loud so Satan could not use them against me. Healthy.
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  jgnat

  Good point, Eden. I am speaking of the serpent.
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  jgnat

  Laika and Agnophos, I heard that lore in my evangelical church, as well.

  The one time my pastor looked genuinely concerned about me (after my initial recovery) was when I burst out about Satan and his evil influence. He asked what I meant. I was facing the new crisis with my son, and I had put it in the context that I knew.

  I think down deep he knows that it's not satan's evil influence that messes people's lives up. We are well and capable of doing that on our own.
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  EdenOne

  Somehow I couldn't recall Genesis treating Satan like a veggie, but I might have missed it somehow... ;)

  Eden
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  jgnat

  Aren't you the clever one, EdenOne.

  Perhaps you can explain a puzzle to me. When, exactly, did Satan's initial fall from heaven take place? Was it before or after Eden?

  http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Isaiah%2014.12-15
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  Apognophos

  A good part of the OT gets by without the devil. He's inserted in Genesis but even that reads like a plant.

  Well, I said "the Bible" because it's the later interpretive framework installed by Christians in the NT which insists on the existence of the devil. Before that, there's mostly just vague references to a "resister" (sa-tan') in the Hebrew scriptures, which is an everyday word which can refer to political enemies. Even in the NT, some references to the "serpent" could be veiled insults to the Roman power (e.g., "666/616" meaning "Nero").

  The serpent in Genesis was just a serpent in a traditional fairy tale, a lack of any deeper meaning is widely agreed upon by Bible scholars. It was only much later that it became associated with the Devil after the concept of the Devil himself solidifed into "an evil being that opposes God".